***Official Premiership, FA Cup, Carling Cup, Champions League etc. Thread***

[jrkarger]

Originally Posted by whodat

I am sure you already know, but your wish was not heard... Bayern v Real Madrid.

Just got to work and found out. Shit.

Originally Posted by monkeyman68

The idiot responsible for those disasters is thankfully no longer in charge at Bayern.......

Here's hoping for a different result this year!

[mrignatious]

pep being an idiot. That's an amazing take.

[aeroshady]

Originally Posted by mrignatious

pep being an idiot. That's an amazing take.

To be fair, I think he is a little overrated. He is being exposed a bit at Shitty right now!

[Ascf33]

Originally Posted by whodat

So throwing out a hypothetical scenario here... If both Leicester and ManU win their respective European cup competitions, how will that effect the top 4 and UCL placements for next season? Will the EPL only send first and second place to the UCL along with Leicester and ManU, then third, fourth and ??? will go to Europa? Or will one of the top 4 enter in the playoffs for UCL? Last season, Sevilla won Europa so La Liga had 4 in the main group stage, with Villareal entering in the playoff round, and ultimately losing to Monaco in that round. So curious to see how this would play out in the unlikely scenario that Leicester and ManU win their respective European cup competitions.

In your scenario, 5 teams will go. 1st, 2nd and 3rd plus LC all go to UCL group and ManU (assuming they don't finish in the top 4) go into UCL playoffs. 4th place will then go to Europa.

[monkeyman68]

Originally Posted by mrignatious

pep being an idiot. That's an amazing take.

Guessing you didn't watch many Bayern games with Pep as the coach.....

[mrignatious]

Originally Posted by monkeyman68

Guessing you didn't watch many Bayern games with Pep as the coach.....

I most certainly did.

You would be hard pressed to find 3 teams in the world that wouldn't be thrilled to have him as manager. He wasn't a fit culturally at bayern, no one to blame really. He who he is and a club with a history that rich isnt going to change their identity for one man.

Definitely an elite manager with probably the most brilliant "soccer mind" this generation.

[aeroshady]

Originally Posted by mrignatious

I most certainly did.

You would be hard pressed to find 3 teams in the world that wouldn't be thrilled to have him as manager. He wasn't a fit culturally at bayern, no one to blame really. He who he is and a club with a history that rich isnt going to change their identity for one man.

Definitely an elite manager with probably the most brilliant "soccer mind" this generation.

I agree with the first bold part a lot. A lot of people don't understand that about Bayern. They are one of the biggest clubs in the world, but have managed to remain very German, and really Bavarian. Their roster is full of players that need to "fit" in with the culture of the team and the fans. They attend Okotberfest and are very involved in the region. I do believe that Pep just didn't fit in there. This is a common thing that happens with Bayern's managers.

I am not so sure I agree with the second bold part. I am also not saying it is incorrect either though. I am of the school of thought that he has benefited from having amazing rosters to manage in leagues that really only have 2-3 real competitive teams to face. I am withholding judgement until he manages for a few years in the EPL first. It is a great test for him.

[monkeyman68]

Originally Posted by mrignatious

I most certainly did.

You would be hard pressed to find 3 teams in the world that wouldn't be thrilled to have him as manager. He wasn't a fit culturally at bayern, no one to blame really. He who he is and a club with a history that rich isnt going to change their identity for one man.

Definitely an elite manager with probably the most brilliant "soccer mind" this generation.

It is easy to fool people into thinking that you have the "most brilliant soccer mind this generation" when you have Messi on your roster.

Pep was brought to Bayern to win the UCL. He failed to do that with a team that had just won the treble.

Pep tearfully apologized to Bayern in the locker room immediate after they lost 5-0 to Real in '14 and said it was the worst managing he ever did (his words not mine).

He managed to top that idiotic performance in '15 when he went into the first leg of the tie (at Camp Nou, mind you) and decided the best chance Bayern had to advance was to play a back three and MAN MARK Messi, Neymar, and Sauarez. Bayern lost 3-0 and the tie was over before they even played in Munich. Genius!

He followed that gem up with the decision to start the first leg away at Atletico without starting Muller when an away goal would have seen Bayern through to the finals.

What a mind!

Let's not forget his regular struggles against the top teams in the Bundesliga year in and year out......

Good bye and good riddance to the most brilliant soccer mind of his generation. No surprise that Man City is out of the UCL already

[mrignatious]

Originally Posted by monkeyman68

It is easy to fool people into thinking that you have the "most brilliant soccer mind this generation" when you have Messi on your roster.

Pep was brought to Bayern to win the UCL. He failed to do that with a team that had just won the treble.

Pep tearfully apologized to Bayern in the locker room immediate after they lost 5-0 to Real in '14 and said it was the worst managing he ever did (his words not mine).

He managed to top that idiotic performance in '15 when he went into the first leg of the tie (at Camp Nou, mind you) and decided the best chance Bayern had to advance was to play a back three and MAN MARK Messi, Neymar, and Sauarez. Bayern lost 3-0 and the tie was over before they even played in Munich. Genius!

He followed that gem up with the decision to start the first leg away at Atletico without starting Muller when an away goal would have seen Bayern through to the finals.

What a mind!

Let's not forget his regular struggles against the top teams in the Bundesliga year in and year out......

Good bye and good riddance to the most brilliant soccer mind of his generation. No surprise that Man City is out of the UCL already

If you're truly upset that in three tries he made it to the semis and crashed out at Bayern, then I understand that. By any manager's standards three straight league titles and three straight trips to the semis is pretty damn great. But to act as though that is the reason he has one of the best minds in world soccer, or wouldn't be welcomed by nearly any club in the world as manager is silly.

Bear in mind that Barcelona, Real and Atletico are THE teams to beat in the Champions League right now. I wouldn't ever argue that he's a perfect manager that gets it right 100% of the time. As you said his decision to leave Muller on the bench was questionable (although he missed a penalty that would've put them through in the 2nd leg). I would stand by his decision to go 3 at the back in the Barcelona game and the 4-0 at Real is a tough one due the fact that Ramos nabbed two goals early on.

I don't think Bayern would be having the success they are this season had Pep not been there the last three. They play the ball out from the back extremely well, Xabi is still a force in the midfield, and it isn't a coincidence that Thiago has developed into an elite midfielder who can win the ball back, pressure well, get out of tight areas, and is an amazing passer.

I think all things considered he would be pleased with how his first year is unfolding at City. They're a point or two behind Tottenham for 2nd and have gotten better and better as the year has progressed, although I think Gundogan being out has really hurt them in the midfield. I wouldn't be surprised at all if next year they are in a similar position as Chelsea are this season, assuming they don't have too many problems with injuries.

[mrignatious]

Originally Posted by aeroshady

I agree with the first bold part a lot. A lot of people don't understand that about Bayern. They are one of the biggest clubs in the world, but have managed to remain very German, and really Bavarian. Their roster is full of players that need to "fit" in with the culture of the team and the fans. They attend Okotberfest and are very involved in the region. I do believe that Pep just didn't fit in there. This is a common thing that happens with Bayern's managers.

I am not so sure I agree with the second bold part. I am also not saying it is incorrect either though. I am of the school of thought that he has benefited from having amazing rosters to manage in leagues that really only have 2-3 real competitive teams to face. I am withholding judgement until he manages for a few years in the EPL first. It is a great test for him.

Well of course he's had amazing rosters to manage, the elite managers almost always do. But what he was able to accomplish at Barcelona, and even more so the way it was accomplished (by expanding on ideas already entrenched there as a result of Cruyff's time with the club), sent ripples throughout Europe.

I think it's easy and even a little cheap to criticize his philosophy by saying "well possession isn't everything" but it's an idea that is really at the core of the way his teams play. Sure he had an amazing group of players at Barcelona, but I've never seen a team that was able to control a game the way they would. They might lose but it was almost always on their terms.

[monkeyman68]

Originally Posted by mrignatious

If you're truly upset that in three tries he made it to the semis and crashed out at Bayern, then I understand that. By any manager's standards three straight league titles and three straight trips to the semis is pretty damn great. But to act as though that is the reason he has one of the best minds in world soccer, or wouldn't be welcomed by nearly any club in the world as manager is silly.

Bear in mind that Barcelona, Real and Atletico are THE teams to beat in the Champions League right now. I wouldn't ever argue that he's a perfect manager that gets it right 100% of the time. As you said his decision to leave Muller on the bench was questionable (although he missed a penalty that would've put them through in the 2nd leg). I would stand by his decision to go 3 at the back in the Barcelona game and the 4-0 at Real is a tough one due the fact that Ramos nabbed two goals early on.

I don't think Bayern would be having the success they are this season had Pep not been there the last three. They play the ball out from the back extremely well, Xabi is still a force in the midfield, and it isn't a coincidence that Thiago has developed into an elite midfielder who can win the ball back, pressure well, get out of tight areas, and is an amazing passer.

I think all things considered he would be pleased with how his first year is unfolding at City. They're a point or two behind Tottenham for 2nd and have gotten better and better as the year has progressed, although I think Gundogan being out has really hurt them in the midfield. I wouldn't be surprised at all if next year they are in a similar position as Chelsea are this season, assuming they don't have too many problems with injuries.

Just so we are clear.....

You think using Boateng (not noted for speed), Benatia (not noted for speed) and Rafinha (who is well.....Rafinha) to man mark Messi/Suarez/Neymar when you are on the road and are looking to score an away goal and damage control at the back end is the best strategy to advance to the UCL finals?

If you watched that game, I'm sure you remember that if it wasn't for Neuer it would have been about 5-0....at half time.

To me, the above is a great example of why Pep is an idiot.

To you, that decision makes sense.

Agree to disagree

[mrignatious]

Originally Posted by monkeyman68

Just so we are clear.....

You think using Boateng (not noted for speed), Benatia (not noted for speed) and Rafinha (who is well.....Rafinha) to man mark Messi/Suarez/Neymar when you are on the road and are looking to score an away goal and damage control at the back end is the best strategy to advance to the UCL finals?

If you watched that game, I'm sure you remember that if it wasn't for Neuer it would have been about 5-0....at half time.

To me, the above is a great example of why Pep is an idiot.

To you, that decision makes sense.

Agree to disagree

And yet...it was 0-0 after 75 minutes.

Even if I were to agree with you, you can't honestly believe that one game proves that he is an idiot. I'm going to need more than that

[monkeyman68]

Originally Posted by mrignatious

And yet...it was 0-0 after 75 minutes.

Even if I were to agree with you, you can't honestly believe that one game proves that he is an idiot. I'm going to need more than that

Thanks to Neuer....not Pep.

I dunno what to tell you. Pep is judged by what he does in the big games. Bayern had the talent to win the UCL all three of his years. Pep's "strength" are his tactics. His tactics were 0-3 in the biggest games of the season (all of which I pointed out to you and all of which are pretty glaring for someone who is a supposed tactical genius).

Pep won with Messi. Great.

You would be hard pressed to find a single Bayern fan who will say he is a tactical genius or the best coaching mind of his generation.

Pep's UCL debut with Man City went pretty much exactly like I thought it would.

Can't wait to see how long he lasts in the BPL

[mrignatious]

Originally Posted by monkeyman68

Thanks to Neuer....not Pep.

I dunno what to tell you. Pep is judged by what he does in the big games. Bayern had the talent to win the UCL all three of his years. Pep's "strength" are his tactics. His tactics were 0-3 in the biggest games of the season (all of which I pointed out to you and all of which are pretty glaring for someone who is a supposed tactical genius).

Pep won with Messi. Great.

You would be hard pressed to find a single Bayern fan who will say he is a tactical genius or the best coaching mind of his generation.

Pep's UCL debut with Man City went pretty much exactly like I thought it would.

Can't wait to see how long he lasts in the BPL

so, essentially my initial argument that he never did and was never going to fit in culturally at Bayern is yours for saying he's an idiot?

And he'll last another 2-4 years at City before he retires, more than likely. I'm sure he'll get it wrong on occasion, maybe even in the semis next year. But he will be successful.

[monkeyman68]

Originally Posted by mrignatious

so, essentially my initial argument that he never did and was never going to fit in culturally at Bayern is yours for saying he's an idiot?

And he'll last another 2-4 years at City before he retires, more than likely. I'm sure he'll get it wrong on occasion, maybe even in the semis next year. But he will be successful.

Geez.......

Yes, Pep did not fit in with Bayern.

Pep inherited a treble winning team and had, all three years at Bayern, a team capable of winning the UCL.

2014- As defending champs, Bayern fall to Real 5-0 and lost 4-0 at home in the second leg. Pep said the loss was his responsibility and it was the worst coaching performance of his career.

0-1

2015- Pep decides to man mark arguably the greatest attacking trio with players who are not noted for their speed. This was UNIVERSALLY viewed as an extreme tactical blunder. Bayern end up losing 3-0 in the first leg making the second leg irrelevant back at Munich.

0-2

2016- Pep does not start Muller away at Atletico (Muller who scored at least 40 goals in all competitions that year) in the first leg. Bayern score an away goal (which increases tremendously if Muller is in the lineup) Bayern advance to the UCL Finals.

0-3

Glaring mistakes above. So glaring, I would be more inclined to refer to the offended manager as an idiot than a tactical genius.

Pep's accolades come from his success at Barca.....with Messi and an out of the world team it is pretty easy to look like a tactical genius.

[42graystreet]

So, did we decide if the guy who's won 72% of his games, the league title in 8 of 9 seasons, 4 domestic cups, 9 other trophies and 2 Champions League titles is any good?

[mrignatious]

I'm starting to think that, generally speaking, he's an idiot because monkeyman didn't agree with his decisions in 3 games.

[Tiduwho]

lol Messi lol

[aeroshady]

Originally Posted by 42graystreet

So, did we decide if the guy who's won 72% of his games, the league title in 8 of 9 seasons, 4 domestic cups, 9 other trophies and 2 Champions League titles is any good?

Not yet. England is a different beast.

On an unrelated note, I am looking forward to seeing Bastian Schweinsteiger play in person this year! Don't care much for the Fire, but I do love Schweiny!

[whodat]

Originally Posted by aeroshady

Not yet. England is a different beast.

On an unrelated note, I am looking forward to seeing Bastian Schweinsteiger play in person this year! Don't care much for the Fire, but I do love Schweiny!

Equally as excited about Schweinsteiger. Chicago visits the Red Bulls April 29th and I already have a ticket secured.

[aeroshady]

Originally Posted by whodat

Equally as excited about Schweinsteiger. Chicago visits the Red Bulls April 29th and I already have a ticket secured.

Also the game I will be at!

[panini2001]

Originally Posted by aeroshady

Not yet. England is a different beast.

On an unrelated note, I am looking forward to seeing Bastian Schweinsteiger play in person this year! Don't care much for the Fire, but I do love Schweiny!

This. Although we haven't necessarily got the best teams in Europe individually I think we have the best 20 teams in one league (out of all the other European leagues) if that makes sense.

Pep is finding out that every week is a battle of epic proportions whereas at Barca and Bayern games are guaranteed wins in a lot of cases.

He's good though.

[jrkarger]

Originally Posted by 42graystreet

So, did we decide if the guy who's won 72% of his games, the league title in 8 of 9 seasons, 4 domestic cups, 9 other trophies and 2 Champions League titles is any good?

Certainly an impressive record, but isn't winning La Liga with Barca and the Bundesliga with Bayern kind of like when the Detroit Red Wings beat up Stan Marsh's hockey team?



Anyway, I saw this today...

http://www.espnfc.us/blog/fifa/243/p...-to-record-low

Is the USMNT really that bad not to crack the top twenty?

Of course they only tied Panama last night so there's that.

[42graystreet]

Originally Posted by jrkarger

Certainly an impressive record, but isn't winning La Liga with Barca and the Bundesliga with Bayern kind of like when the Detroit Red Wings beat up Stan Marsh's hockey team?



Anyway, I saw this today...

http://www.espnfc.us/blog/fifa/243/p...-to-record-low

Is the USMNT really that bad not to crack the top twenty?

Of course they only tied Panama last night so there's that.

I believe that FIFA uses some convoluted algorithm that only takes into account results of "competitive" games. So anything you do in friendlies doesn't influence this ranking. Our form in competitive games in the last year:

LWLWWWLLWWLLWD

Nothing too impressive. Our best wins in that run are against Costa Rica (19), Paraguay (43) and Ecuador (22). Those rankings are from the previous month.

Our losses are to Guatemala (79), Columbia (7), Argentina (1), Columbia again (7), Mexico (17) and Costa Rica (19).

[42graystreet]

I've just seen that friendlies are taken into account in the rankings but they are weighted the lowest. Competitive games in FIFA sanctioned tournaments and World Cup qualifying are weighted the highest (save for WC games themselves).

[mrignatious]

To be frank though, they really are that bad

[42graystreet]

A ranking between 20-30 in the world feels about right for this team at the moment.

[jrkarger]

I guess it struck me as odd to see Egypt and Wales on there before the US. Although as I type this I recall Wales going deep in last year's Euros. So there's that.

[Nick_United]

Eight draws in 15 home games. We should be beating West Brom at home.

[aeroshady]

United are screwed. They just keep drawing. They will need to win the Europa League to get into the CL next season.