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Old 09-28-2014, 09:13 PM   #31
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Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

absolutely 100 percent yes...people wanted to see Sosa and Mark belt 60 homeruns and break the record...or Bonds break 755..non fans watched those games. Steroids helped the game of baseball just as much as it hurt it. More people want to see a 10-9 game than a 2-1 game. One guy hit 40 HR's this year. 10 years ago, EVERY team had a 40 HR guy. Lack of offense has also hurt the game
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  • Old 09-28-2014, 09:15 PM   #32
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Biased, but if the Braves ever get their heads out of their asses and win a pennant I think they would have pretty good national support all across the country.

    Dodgers/Angels would be the best for ratings this year IMO. All of LA would be watching on top of everyone else.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:19 PM   #33
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Lack of offense has hurt baseball and steroids would help maybe but you can't send that message kids. I know these corporations have no ethics but still.

    Sounds so stupid I know.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:20 PM   #34
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by uro55 View Post
    I'd also say there's an argument to be made that it's not totally, or as much, the decline of baseball, but the rise of other things.
    It very well could be a factor, yea. Maybe even the same basic concept of how if a TV show these days gets like 10 million viewers for their weekly episode, that's considered a grand slam. Whereas 10-15 years ago, hell you might be in danger of getting canceled if you were "only" pulling in that many.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lockman21 View Post
    162 games? That's way way way too many. Baseball is basically year round. They don't give people 1) time to miss it, or 2) the ability to believe any one regular season game actually has that much impact. Football is easy because it's once (ok 3 times but, basically once) a week, people can get excited about a matchup, sit down on the weekend and then it's over until the next time. Hockey and basketball at least have breaks where it's fun because it's kind of like, "Oh nice! There's a game on tonight!" But baseball is literally every freaking day for, what, 6 or 7 months? Then the playoffs, then just a couple months later it's "holy shit pitchers and catchers report omg". It's TOO MUCH.

    I'm so glad you said this, cause as I was scrolling down looking at these other posts, this is pretty much right along with what I was starting to think. That, for the casual fan, at least, with there being soooooooo many more games than all of other pro sports, it's just that much easier to be, well, casual about it. You think, okay I missed this weekend's series, I'll check them out by the middle of this week. And you just keep pushing it off til later, because you know there's plenty more you can catch up with at any time.

    Mind you, having said all that, I think we all know that there's, oh, about ZEEEEERO fucking chance of the schedule ever being reduced back to anything less than 162 games.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:21 PM   #35
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    No one nationally will give a shit about the Braves
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:21 PM   #36
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by recentlyJTR41 View Post
    True. CFB is about to boom like no other with this Playoff. The ratings and betting will make it very lucrative.

    Also soccer I read back during the World Cup that the US has the HIGHEST number of youth soccer players. 20 million. That's crazy. Next 10-15 it will be up with NFL, MLB, NBA
    It's always had great youth participation, soccer, it's keeping them as fans that's difficult.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:22 PM   #37
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    I agree...but people that act like steroids did nothing good for baseball need to get off their high horse. That's not true. Bonds breaking the HR record was a national event. Sosa and Mark, national event...national event in baseball today? a person from the glorydays of baseball retiring...nothing that has to do with the actual games
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:23 PM   #38
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    I remember clearly when McGuire set the record. Steroids saved baseball and the lack of them is ruining it
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:24 PM   #39
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    The Roid era was an exciting time for baseball.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:25 PM   #40
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by recentlyJTR41 View Post
    Dodgers/Angels would be the best for ratings this year IMO. All of LA would be watching on top of everyone else.

    seriously? no offense, but I think you've got that pretty much 100% backwards. I'm sure the networks are dreading a Dodgers/Angels series. sure all of southern California would be watching, but I'm not too sure however many else. This would totally fuck things up time-wise for the east coast, which as we all know is what's regarded as the main priority when it comes to this stuff.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:25 PM   #41
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JRS1386 View Post
    No one nationally will give a shit about the Braves
    You need to Rise Up. My friend.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bo(w)theDropsFan View Post
    It's always had great youth participation, soccer, it's keeping them as fans that's difficult.
    True. I think that'll change here in the future.


    Youth baseball is also hurting the interest in the sport. Kids get burnt out so easily on it. It's also becoming too exclusive.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:25 PM   #42
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Really makes me wonder if Babe was on some shit.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:26 PM   #43
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    All LA would be the worst for baseball. Never seen a World Series game where half the fans enter during the 3rd inning
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:30 PM   #44
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    I honestly believe that in 10 years the NBA, NHL, CFB and NFL will be the 4 biggest sports leagues in the country (not necessarily in that order).

    I think soccer and baseball will both end up with the same type of "cult-like" following, but they won't have the national attention.

    I think soccer will get there in our lifetimes, but not THAT soon. I think that still suffers from the same effect of baseball in that the general public will deem it too "boring".
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:32 PM   #45
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by junior94 View Post
    seriously? no offense, but I think you've got that pretty much 100% backwards. I'm sure the networks are dreading a Dodgers/Angels series. sure all of southern California would be watching, but I'm not too sure however many else. This would totally fuck things up time-wise for the east coast, which as we all know is what's regarded as the main priority when it comes to this stuff.
    Didn't think about time zones. I was basically going off the fact that both the Dodgers and the Angels had 3 Million in attendance this year I saw in a tweet earlier.

    You're exactly right though. My mistake.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:36 PM   #46
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    I will say it's interesting that the length of games is always brought up about baseball. The average baseball game is 3 hours. The average football game? 3 hours. And probably with more commercial time. Granted, the 3 hours of football has more action than 3 hours of baseball, but it's just interesting to me that there's a bit of a double standard there.

    I think the length of the season hurts it more than anything. Everyone is excited about baseball in April/May, but by the time September rolls around, football is back, and everyone has baseball fatigue. Baseball playoffs are so damn good, though.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:36 PM   #47
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lockman21 View Post
    I honestly believe that in 10 years the NBA, NHL, CFB and NFL will be the 4 biggest sports leagues in the country (not necessarily in that order).

    I think soccer and baseball will both end up with the same type of "cult-like" following, but they won't have the national attention.

    I think soccer will get there in our lifetimes, but not THAT soon. I think that still suffers from the same effect of baseball in that the general public will deem it too "boring".
    I know you're a hockey fan and I'm a baseball fan but you honestly think NHL will ever be bigger than MLB? Hockey is the most regional sport in America. Only a few pockets of the country follow it that closely. You know more about it than I do though so you might be right.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:38 PM   #48
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Quote:
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    I said "swag" as in to attract young viewers. I'm completely against it though.

    I think Trout should be the face of the MLB but I dont think you can guarantee greatness year after year because that's just baseball. It's so much harder to do that in baseball than the NBA or NFL. Pujols was once the best hitter on earth now he's not even the best on his team. You can't say the same for Peyton Manning ya know.

    I do think the season shoul be cut by about 20 games or so but you'll never convince MLB to do this because that's losing millions of dollars. I don't think baseball can ever have urgency because that's not how the sport works. You can play two baseball games in a day if you have to. You can't play two football games in a week. Even Sunday to Thursday is pushing it. But I will say this, when it does have urgency like the playoffs or WC games, it is more tense than an NFL game imo.
    Oh, well of course. They'll try to find "fixes" without losing money. I know that.

    The problem is that it's just overload. Rosters are massive including the extensive minor league system, and people just can't keep with the year round baseball-a-thon. No one cares about the draft or the minors (no one being a relative exaggerated term, I know there are some that actually do, but they are a rare breed) because there's just no consistency. In any of the other three major sports (NFL/NBA/NHL), you see guys from the tops of drafts all the time. You can follow their quick progression and see them play in the league pretty quickly if not right away. Baseball has no draft, no real offseason...it's just overload. They need to have a salary cap, introduce a more level playing field...they need to figure out a way to make stars have some longevity, and how to make it less of a marathon so people actually can hang with and follow their team.

    No idea how to do that though? I'm certainly not the right guy to ask.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:41 PM   #49
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mthawk07 View Post
    I will say it's interesting that the length of games is always brought up about baseball. The average baseball game is 3 hours. The average football game? 3 hours. And probably with more commercial time. Granted, the 3 hours of football has more action than 3 hours of baseball, but it's just interesting to me that there's a bit of a double standard there.

    I think the length of the season hurts it more than anything. Everyone is excited about baseball in April/May, but by the time September rolls around, football is back, and everyone has baseball fatigue. Baseball playoffs are so damn good, though.
    I don't think it helps that a lot of teams are out of playoff contention in May.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:41 PM   #50
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    World Cup in America got 26.5 million viewers...World Series clinching game last year: 19 million.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:42 PM   #51
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Totally agree^

    The MLB draft is the biggest cluster fuck in America. College baseball is great and I wish it got more air time but it's hard to keep up with young stars because the best of the best come straight out of high school. Unlike CFB and CBB
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:43 PM   #52
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by snow1868 View Post
    I don't think it helps that a lot of teams are out of playoff contention in May.
    Agreed.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by YankeesDMB41 View Post
    World Cup in America got 26.5 million viewers...World Series clinching game last year: 19 million.
    Eh.....World Cup is a big deal though. What were the ratings for the MLS championship game last year?
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:43 PM   #53
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lockman21 View Post
    Zepp I think you nailed it.

    The fact that the NHL and NBA, for example, have SO MANY highlights on YouTube. This just happened a couple hours ago:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgLFBgMYtHs

    And the NHL gets it RIGHT up. People upload that stuff from back in the day and the NHL and NBA aren't pulling it down due to copyright claims. Look up almost any classic NHL moment in the past 30 years and there will be a great clip on YouTube. It's easily accessible.
    Stuff like this is so important.

    Plus really dumb blackout rules with stuff like MLB At Bat. You want to watch your team on the iPhone? Well MLB doesn't care. Watch it how they want or not at all. Why you'd actively stop people from watching your games is just crazy.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:45 PM   #54
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Quote:
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    Eh.....World Cup is a big deal though. What were the ratings for the MLS championship game last year?
    Awful comparison because the MLS isn't the pinnacle of that sport.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:47 PM   #55
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by recentlyJTR41 View Post
    I know you're a hockey fan and I'm a baseball fan but you honestly think NHL will ever be bigger than MLB? Hockey is the most regional sport in America. Only a few pockets of the country follow it that closely. You know more about it than I do though so you might be right.
    I honestly do. It's trending in the right direction, and quickly. Gary Bettman, for as much as us diehards love to hate him, has done a great job of growing the national attention to the sport. Things like the Winter Classic have been great marketing tools, and attendance is absolutely through the roof in the league. It beat out the NBA in average attendance despite having arenas that naturally have less seating capacity than a basketball court (hockey rinks are much bigger...for example the Blackhawks have a capacity about 1,500 less than the Bulls because they remove seats when they have the rink, yet the Hawks had an average attendance of about 1,500 MORE people per game last year...)

    I think it has all the ingredients. Lots of superstars coming to the forefront (Patrick Kane is in McDonald's commercials now, Sidney Crosby and Ovechkin are becoming more household names, etc), it's a fast paced game with a great live atmosphere (tell me this doesn't look awesome, even though it was a disallowed goal), HDTV is really helping the sport, it's a hard hitting game which can draw in lots of casual fans (just look at how that helped football over time), and it's growing a lot in areas you wouldn't expect (the Dallas Stars have a growing and surprisingly loyal fanbase, the Tampa Bay Lightning do better on TV and in attendance every year, the Florida Panthers have a surprisingly cult-like following, etc).

    I think the biggest problem is the deal with NBC that they have, because the NHL and ESPN haven't gotten along for almost a decade. ESPN refuses to show their highlights because of a feud that dates back pretty far, and the NHL refuses to give them any real opportunity to negotiate a TV deal because of it. It's a horrible and immature standoff that I think has held the sport back nationally for YEARS. Not a lot of people know what NBC Sports is on their TVs.

    But I think it has the chance to, absolutely, become a major player in the national market. It already is getting closer every year.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:49 PM   #56
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Quote:
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    Awful comparison because the MLS isn't the pinnacle of that sport.
    World Cup has the added bonus of nationality, which is far more powerful than city/state loyalty.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:50 PM   #57
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by recentlyJTR41 View Post
    Didn't think about time zones. I was basically going off the fact that both the Dodgers and the Angels had 3 Million in attendance this year I saw in a tweet earlier.

    You're exactly right though. My mistake.

    mind you, despite whatever jokes I made about it before, me personally, I do think I want to see an Angels/Dodgers series, cause for one thing I think it probably would be the very best team from each league going at it. And the notion of Mike Trout getting possibly like 10 or more at-bats against Clayton Kershaw, the best pitcher and best player in the majors facing each other in the most important games of the year? HELL YES.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:54 PM   #58
    YankeesDMB41
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

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    Originally Posted by mthawk07 View Post
    Agreed.


    Eh.....World Cup is a big deal though. What were the ratings for the MLS championship game last year?
    Im just throwing these things out there...10 years ago I highly doubt this was true
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:54 PM   #59
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Quick summary of right answers:

    -Slow game speed
    -Low powered rosters
    -Overloaded game schedule
    -No draft
    -Minor leagues
    -no more roids
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    That was the most Un-Cubs thing ever.
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    Old 09-28-2014, 09:56 PM   #60
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    Re: The Decline of Baseball in America

    Here's another video showcasing hockey's environment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfT2jlkqtLI

    (I just love these videos)

    I don't want to make this a hockey thread because that's not what it's about, but to answer you question, yes I believe hockey will be huge in 10 years, and I think baseball will be more on the level of soccer. Look at how cities like Chicago have rallied around their hockey team. The Blackhawks are easily the 2nd biggest team in this city (almost impossible to dethrone the Bears, but the Hawks are doing their best). I think in a microscope, Chicago is showing the country just how big hockey can be, and I think it will get there. Ask some people in LA just how much bigger the Kings are now than they were 10 years ago, or even 20 years ago when Gretzky was there. Numbers nationally of kids getting into the sport are through the roof up over what they used to be...it's getting there.

    But anyway, I'd really love to see baseball succeed. It has such a history in my life, but I just don't see it happening. Like a couple people have said, there's no way they trim down the 162 game schedule, plus spring training, etc. Hell, they already added more baseball recently with another playoff series. The game is just naturally slower and the seasons are longer. That's a recipe for disaster with how our country is trending with attention spans and instant gratification.
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