** Official Obama Thread ** - Page 1047 - Antsmarching.org Forums - Dave Matthews Band Discussion
Old 11-07-2012, 10:28 AM   #31381
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Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandy18 View Post
I don't know about you, but I have sex all the time and at 34, I only have 1 pregnancy, 1 birth and he was planned.
Let's not even pretend for a little bit that Shotty was talking about middle class white people like us.
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  • Old 11-07-2012, 10:30 AM   #31382
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Benny003 View Post
    You act like people don't strive to be successful anymore. You know what's causing the decline? The U.S. is not a manufacturing hub anymore because it can be so easily outsourced in the global economy that now exists. The future of the American economy is going to need to rely on being highly educated. If the country is in decline, it's because our higher education system (or education in general) is not producing the way it needs to.

    As far as economics go, at what point in time do you consider the country to have had the best economy in it's history?
    I think you mentioned this earlier as well and I actually agree with you.
    However, you may want to pass on the memo to Obama.

    I literally laughed out loud when, during the town hall debate, the question came from a kid ready to graduate college. He (loosely summarizing) asked about the outlook for a job when he graduates.

    What did Obama talk about? Manufacturing jobs.

    What did he talk about during a lot of campaign speeches? Manufacturing jobs.

    So, either the future of this country is still manufacturing (which I agree with you that it is not) or we live in a country where we're told whatever we think we want to hear from politicians.

    For example (on campaign speeches):

    Earlier, at Bowling Green State University, about 25 miles south of Toledo, Obama said he would create 1 million manufacturing jobs in the next four years.

    From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2BYxKkH7D
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    Old 11-07-2012, 10:32 AM   #31383
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    That's kind of where the importance of educating America comes in.
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    Old 11-07-2012, 10:32 AM   #31384
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dmbmuskie View Post
    Let's not even pretend for a little bit that Shotty was talking about middle class white people like us.
    I'm sorry, you're right. I forgot that only white middle class women had access to birth control.
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    Old 11-07-2012, 10:33 AM   #31385
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    The problem is, my generation thinks they are too good for manufacturing. You have people going in debt to get worthless degrees they can't use, when they could be getting very well paying manufacturing jobs out of high school, if they get the right skill set.
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    Old 11-07-2012, 10:34 AM   #31386
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB View Post
    I don't care who has sex. I just don't believe people should get free food, healthcare, cell phones, housing just for spreading their legs. If you subsidize something, you get more of it. Which is why for instance, the black family has virtually disintegrated, when prior to the welfare state, that wasn't the case.
    The black family disintegrated because of the war on drugs, specifically the insane sentencing for crack versus coke, and the fact that we turned the poor into a profit center.
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    Old 11-07-2012, 10:34 AM   #31387
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dmbmuskie View Post
    Let's not even pretend for a little bit that Shotty was talking about middle class white people like us.
    My sister is white. She has two kids. She has no husband. She's on public assistance. She gets government housing. She gets food stamps.
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    Old 11-07-2012, 10:35 AM   #31388
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB View Post
    Yeah, the party that gives parasites "free" birth control and healthcare, and housing, and food stamps is def that vehicle.
    The Southern states (which consistently vote Republican) have the highest poverty rates, highest teen birth rates and highest rates of single motherhood. These states also have high healthcare costs because they consistently rank among the nation's most unhealthy states.
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    Old 11-07-2012, 10:36 AM   #31389
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mandy18 View Post
    I'm sorry, you're right. I forgot that only white middle class women had access to birth control.
    If you think education and access for you and a woman the same age as you born into different circumstances are the same, then I don't know what to say.
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    Old 11-07-2012, 10:36 AM   #31390
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB View Post
    The problem is, my generation thinks they are too good for manufacturing. You have people going in debt to get worthless degrees they can't use, when they could be getting very well paying manufacturing jobs out of high school, if they get the right skill set.
    I agree and disagree. You can get a liberal arts degree and still get a job, you just have to work harder to become qualified/find it. A lot of kids that attend college still have the notion that a degree guarantees them a job and so they decide to major in Philosophy.

    If you're going to major in French, realize your options are limited and have a backup plan.
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    Old 11-07-2012, 10:40 AM   #31391
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdude85 View Post
    The Southern states (which consistently vote Republican) have the highest poverty rates, highest teen birth rates and highest rates of single motherhood. These states also have high healthcare costs because they consistently rank among the nation's most unhealthy states.
    Yes, there are a lot of black people in the south....
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    Old 11-07-2012, 10:41 AM   #31392
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    The problem with bullshit degrees is that you're not told it's a bullshit degree. Some are obvious, but others that seems more promising are equally as dead end. We've got a ton of poly-sci majors in here, and none of them are working in that field.
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    Old 11-07-2012, 10:45 AM   #31393
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dmbmuskie View Post
    If you think education and access for you and a woman the same age as you born into different circumstances are the same, then I don't know what to say.
    Well, according to Planned Parenthood, birth control use is nearly universal. Ninety-nine percent of all sexually experienced women and 98 percent of sexually experienced Catholic women have used it at some point in their lives.

    So, I guess I don't know what to say to you.
    Birth control is accessible to all women, regardless of income, race and educational levels. However, it is up to the woman to decide to use it.
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    Old 11-07-2012, 10:47 AM   #31394
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB View Post
    The problem is, my generation thinks they are too good for manufacturing. You have people going in debt to get worthless degrees they can't use, when they could be getting very well paying manufacturing jobs out of high school, if they get the right skill set.
    I agree with this but I also don't see how business leaders can complain about the economy or unemployment or anything when they're the ones getting rid of tons and tons of jobs. I understand the need to maximize profits but there's a point where the "pride" should put a ceiling on outsourcing. If all of a sudden a ton of people went into manufacturing there'd still be a glut of workers relative to jobs available because everything keeps on being shipped overseas.

    With all the available loop holes to not pay taxes at the business level that probably won't close any time soon, we shouldn't need to bribe companies to stay in America.
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    Old 11-07-2012, 12:55 PM   #31395
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Obama's spending is just absurd guys: http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...80560734_n.jpg
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    Old 11-07-2012, 01:28 PM   #31396
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB View Post
    The problem is, my generation thinks they are too good for manufacturing. You have people going in debt to get worthless degrees they can't use, when they could be getting very well paying manufacturing jobs out of high school, if they get the right skill set.
    The parents of children after WWII took on low paying manufacturing jobs (and the like) with the hopes of better futures for their children. The generations that came after them grew up on that hope and that included going to college and not needing to work that crappy low level manufacturing job that their parents worked. The problem we face now is not everyone wanting to go to college (wanting to go to college and get educated is a good thing! And it took generations to create that culture), but rather getting the most effective use out of college and making it cost effective is one of our biggest problems.

    The colleges around the country are trying to maximum as much as possible on that culture of wanting to attend college that has been created over the last 60 years and it's becoming too expensive and too many schools are all too happy to provide worthless degrees if people are willing to buy into them. The cost of college and fostering/culturing educations that create meaningful jobs is what needs to be restructured in this country.

    The future of this country relies on a highly educated work force that creates meaningful jobs. The future is not more low paying jobs (manufacturing, manual labor, etc.). If China and India wants the world's low paying jobs, let them have them. Upward mobility in this country can only happen through education. I think businesses that require highly educated workers in this country need to have more hands-on involvement with higher education because it's those businesses that stand to prosper the most because of a more educated work force. They need to find a way to make college more affordable and to make sure that the people going to college are focusing their energy on educations that will produce the jobs the country needs.

    Bottom line is we don't have a problem of a motivated country, the problem is they are motivated, but it's being wasted on things that aren't producing the results we need. More kids than ever before go to college now, so the country needs to make sure that they are getting as much out of that desire for education as they can.

    Last edited by Benny003; 11-07-2012 at 01:29 PM.
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    Old 11-07-2012, 01:35 PM   #31397
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    I think at some point in the future there will be a big restructuring of education. I think more focus will be placed on educating with a specific career in mind rather than just giving people a general education with no direction. That's why I think businesses need to get involved more in education. A year or two ago I heard that IBM I think was helping to develop a high school program that would directly result in a job after they finished it. As in the student would go into that specific program as a part of their high school education and IBM would hire them knowing they had the background that IBM was looking for in new empolyees. I think some iteration of that kind of thinking will be put into place on a bigger scale eventually. Businesses and schools working together more closely. Instead of getting an education just to get an education, people will get an education with a direct purpose earlier on in their schooling.
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    Old 11-07-2012, 03:24 PM   #31398
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    A few quick points: you're vastly underestimating the plethora of good paying jobs that require a skill & training, but not college. For example: electricians, plumbers, carpenters and yes, manufacturing. Manufacturing does not have to equate to low level. Second: college is not for everybody. There are plenty if people that just do not have the intelligence. Period. And, if we wanted to push it more, it would require a massive overhaul of the entire education system and quite frankly, the teachers union will not allow it. More money in the system is not the solution. Major, major overhaul is. Last, if everybody gets a bachelors degree, then it will just be a masters that sets them apart from the rest. It would be 4 more years of school that everybody has.

    We need to overhaul the entire education system in this country, not just push for college degrees.
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    Old 11-07-2012, 03:44 PM   #31399
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mandy18 View Post
    A few quick points: you're vastly underestimating the plethora of good paying jobs that require a skill & training, but not college. For example: electricians, plumbers, carpenters and yes, manufacturing. Manufacturing does not have to equate to low level. Second: college is not for everybody. There are plenty if people that just do not have the intelligence. Period. And, if we wanted to push it more, it would require a massive overhaul of the entire education system and quite frankly, the teachers union will not allow it. More money in the system is not the solution. Major, major overhaul is. Last, if everybody gets a bachelors degree, then it will just be a masters that sets them apart from the rest. It would be 4 more years of school that everybody has.

    We need to overhaul the entire education system in this country, not just push for college degrees.
    To the bold, that's exactly what I was talking about. That's why I mentioned that IBM was working with high schools to develop a curriculum that results in a job with IBM right after graduating. Those types of high school curriculums would be perfect for kids that don't plan on going to college, but want a skilled job. For the kids that want to go to college, college needs to be made more affordable so people aren't graduating with a mortgage's worth of loans to pay off.

    The bottom line is that the jobs America can lead the world with require a good education. America will not be a global economic leader with jobs that only require a simple generic high school education. The 1950's economic model for America no longer applies. Better paying jobs require better education. I'm not talking about just having more people with paper degrees on the wall. I'm talking about making the educations people do get (whatever it is, high school, community college, college, whatever) needs to be more productive. It needs to do better at producing the jobs the country needs to grow.
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    Old 11-07-2012, 03:46 PM   #31400
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Great story on the inner workings of Obama's campaign and its use of voter metrics: http://swampland.time.com/2012/11/07...ped-obama-win/

    Quote:
    The analytics team used four streams of polling data to build a detailed picture of voters in key states. In the past month, said one official, the analytics team had polling data from about 29,000 people in Ohio alone — a whopping sample that composed nearly half of 1% of all voters there — allowing for deep dives into exactly where each demographic and regional group was trending at any given moment. This was a huge advantage: when polls started to slip after the first debate, they could check to see which voters were changing sides and which were not.

    It was this database that helped steady campaign aides in October’s choppy waters, assuring them that most of the Ohioans in motion were not Obama backers but likely Romney supporters whom Romney had lost because of his September blunders. “We were much calmer than others,” said one of the officials. The polling and voter-contact data were processed and reprocessed nightly to account for every imaginable scenario. “We ran the election 66,000 times every night,” said a senior official, describing the computer simulations the campaign ran to figure out Obama’s odds of winning each swing state. “And every morning we got the spit-out — here are your chances of winning these states. And that is how we allocated resources.”

    ---

    The numbers also led the campaign to escort their man down roads not usually taken in the late stages of a presidential campaign. In August, Obama decided to answer questions on the social news website Reddit, which many of the President’s senior aides did not know about. “Why did we put Barack Obama on Reddit?” an official asked rhetorically. “Because a whole bunch of our turnout targets were on Reddit.”

    Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2012/11/07...#ixzz2BaETXkUX
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    Old 11-07-2012, 04:07 PM   #31401
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Benny003 View Post
    To the bold, that's exactly what I was talking about. That's why I mentioned that IBM was working with high schools to develop a curriculum that results in a job with IBM right after graduating. Those types of high school curriculums would be perfect for kids that don't plan on going to college, but want a skilled job. For the kids that want to go to college, college needs to be made more affordable so people aren't graduating with a mortgage's worth of loans to pay off.

    The bottom line is that the jobs America can lead the world with require a good education. America will not be a global economic leader with jobs that only require a simple generic high school education. The 1950's economic model for America no longer applies. Better paying jobs require better education. I'm not talking about just having more people with paper degrees on the wall. I'm talking about making the educations people do get (whatever it is, high school, community college, college, whatever) needs to be more productive. It needs to do better at producing the jobs the country needs to grow.
    Pushing more kids towards college certainly will only increase tuition.
    And, every time the gov't increases loan limits, the price of tuition increases. If you can borrow more, the schools can (and will) charge more.

    And, while I agree to an extent about education needing more of a focus, at what age do we decide what focus that will be? Do you know how many times I changed what I "thought" I wanted to be?

    And, back to your points a few posts ago, I don't think we're a motivated country as whole. Maybe we start that way, but when we realize at like 6 that our parents don't give a shit about our school, we start to not give a shit as well. I just don't see motivation out there as being at a high. I think it is severely low. Too low. Nothing can change unless parenting (when it comes to the family structure and education/ parental involvement) changes and sorry, i just don't see that happening anytime soon.
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    Old 11-07-2012, 05:18 PM   #31402
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rodey View Post
    Obama's spending is just absurd guys: http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...80560734_n.jpg
    So is this attributing part of the shitstorm from the beginning of Obama's administration to Bush? Just curious, because when you look at a chart like this, it seems Bush's debt was around 4.8 trillion.
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    Old 11-07-2012, 05:37 PM   #31403
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mandy18 View Post
    Pushing more kids towards college certainly will only increase tuition.
    And, every time the gov't increases loan limits, the price of tuition increases. If you can borrow more, the schools can (and will) charge more.

    And, while I agree to an extent about education needing more of a focus, at what age do we decide what focus that will be? Do you know how many times I changed what I "thought" I wanted to be?

    And, back to your points a few posts ago, I don't think we're a motivated country as whole. Maybe we start that way, but when we realize at like 6 that our parents don't give a shit about our school, we start to not give a shit as well. I just don't see motivation out there as being at a high. I think it is severely low. Too low. Nothing can change unless parenting (when it comes to the family structure and education/ parental involvement) changes and sorry, i just don't see that happening anytime soon.
    More kids than ever are going to college. If they aren't motivated, why go to the trouble of incurring all that expense and work?

    If increasing government loans and encouraging more kids to go to college is causing tuition to far outpace inflation, then are you suggesting fewer kids should be going to college and/or there should be less government assistance? That seems counter-productive to maintaining global economic leadership.
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    Old 11-07-2012, 05:39 PM   #31404
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GSUdawg521 View Post
    So is this attributing part of the shitstorm from the beginning of Obama's administration to Bush? Just curious, because when you look at a chart like this, it seems Bush's debt was around 4.8 trillion.
    Do you mean 10.6?
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    Old 11-07-2012, 05:48 PM   #31405
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by som3d3vil34 View Post
    Do you mean 10.6?
    Haha, I meant the difference between when he took office and when he left, which is about 4.8 according to a chart like that.
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    Old 11-07-2012, 07:21 PM   #31406
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Obama Wins 8 of Nation's 10 Wealthiest Counties

    Why did all of these wealthy people vote for Obama? Don't they know that he hates them and their money and wants to give it all away to the moocher class?

    http://www2.nbc26.tv/news/2012/nov/0...es-ar-4918197/
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    Old 11-07-2012, 07:23 PM   #31407
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    We,lcome to the New Normal™ America
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    Old 11-07-2012, 08:11 PM   #31408
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Jon Stewart just spanked FOX news in his first segment
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    Old 11-07-2012, 09:42 PM   #31409
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Benny003 View Post
    More kids than ever are going to college. If they aren't motivated, why go to the trouble of incurring all that expense and work?

    If increasing government loans and encouraging more kids to go to college is causing tuition to far outpace inflation, then are you suggesting fewer kids should be going to college and/or there should be less government assistance? That seems counter-productive to maintaining global economic leadership.
    Because that is what society expects kids to do these days. It was that way when I graduated from high school 10 years ago. I know a handful of kids who should never have gone to college, but did because that is what they were supposed to do. Those kids either didn't finish or took six or seven years to do so.

    There is always going to be jobs in this country that are needed from trade schools, and while I highly value higher education, we need to communicate kids that it is okay to go that route if it is best for you.
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    Old 11-08-2012, 06:34 AM   #31410
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    Re: ** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UNC41 View Post
    Because that is what society expects kids to do these days. It was that way when I graduated from high school 10 years ago. I know a handful of kids who should never have gone to college, but did because that is what they were supposed to do. Those kids either didn't finish or took six or seven years to do so.

    There is always going to be jobs in this country that are needed from trade schools, and while I highly value higher education, we need to communicate kids that it is okay to go that route if it is best for you.
    And that's fine. That's partially what I was getting at by saying it would be nice if that route could be identified at the high school level and start creating curriculums at that time for those people that will produce jobs for them. Basically stop this "one size fits all" public education.

    I wasn't saying everyone needs to go to college no matter what. What I'm saying is that our economic future is going to rely on an educated work force, whether that's community college or a 4-year college or whatever. The point is we shouldn't be aiming for low wage jobs that other countries can do cheaper and on a larger scale than us. We should be aiming for jobs that require a solid education (not necessarily a 4-year college, just jobs that require more than a standard high school education) because as the wealthiest nation in the world we should be able to outpace other countries when it comes to education, but we're not.
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