Law school

[afritsch]

we have not. ill keep a look out for it though.

[BehindBlueyes16]

It is even immortalized in film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qHEBABE6PU

[SteelerMan]

Originally Posted by BehindBlueyes16

Yeah I just had my first day as a 2L. Classes are fine but I'm bogged down in OCI hell right now. The joys of law school never seem to end!

OCI is exciting. Hitting refresh and hoping you get interviews is like playing the lottery.

[BehindBlueyes16]

haha well I got to experience that part of the excitement on Friday. Now I just have to figure out how to handle prepping for 15 interviews while still juggling my class and law review obligations. sigh....

[joepsu0985]

Is it weird that I actually understand law school? I mean, it's a lot of work, but I really understand it so far. People are starting to freak out. I don't know what they expected. Maybe I'm just blind to what I'm supposed to be doing.

About outlining. I've heard it's good to start early. I heard it's a waste to start early. Any opinions? I started for one class and I can see how all the cases are relevant to one another better than by just briefing them.

[BehindBlueyes16]

Last year I started somewhere around a month to a month and a half before exams. It kind of depends on the pace at which you like to do it. For the first semester especially, starting mid-October probably isn't a bad idea, just because its something you've never really done before, and it can be hard to predict exactly how long it will take you. Study groups can also be amazing. If you find a group of people you trust to work hard and do a good job, dividing up the outlining duties can be really nice. Again though, that might be a better idea for second semester when you really know what's up with the exam prep and testing process.

[BehindBlueyes16]

Oh, and no, I don't think its weird that you understand law school. It clicked pretty fast for me as well (which was quite a relief because how I ended up here was kind of a crazy story). For some people it just takes longer to "get it", hence why some might be freaking out.

[joepsu0985]

Right. I think it is more that they are afraid of the work load. I don't know what they expected. It was more than I expected, but I'm the type of person that just moves on and deals with it.

As far as the outlines go, do you usually organize by case, or by topic? So far I'm doing a little of both and found it works great to really get the stuff at the end of the week. Thanks for the help.

[SteelerMan]

Last year, I started outlining a month and a half before exams. If you wait too long, you won't have time to make a decent outline. If you start too early, you won't really know enough yet to make a good outline and will end up having to spend a lot of time later revising it. I made my own with a combination of my notes (though I ended up not using them that much), commercial outlines like Emmanuel's, and old outlines from the class (probably what I used the most).

I'd definitely recommend organizing by topic rather than by case. Organizing by topic will help you get the bigger picture, and you'll find that nearly every case you read fits neatly under one of the topics. I think getting "the bigger picture", i.e. understanding topics rather than specific facts of cases, is the key to exams. Oh, and if at all possible, find old exams for each class. See if your professors will allow you to answer some old questions and have them take a look at them to give you advice. My experience is most won't do this, but some will, and it's extremely valuable. Having an idea of what the professor is looking for on the exam is invaluable.

This is all just my advice though. I could be totally wrong.

[thatgirl224]

All of my friends in law say it's not really too hard, but it's massively time consuming. It's a lot of memorization or very dull facts and cases and such for the most part. But their classes are very interactive so it makes up for the monotony.

[BehindBlueyes16]

Originally Posted by SteelerMan

Last year, I started outlining a month and a half before exams. If you wait too long, you won't have time to make a decent outline. If you start too early, you won't really know enough yet to make a good outline and will end up having to spend a lot of time later revising it. I made my own with a combination of my notes (though I ended up not using them that much), commercial outlines like Emmanuel's, and old outlines from the class (probably what I used the most).

I'd definitely recommend organizing by topic rather than by case. Organizing by topic will help you get the bigger picture, and you'll find that nearly every case you read fits neatly under one of the topics. I think getting "the bigger picture", i.e. understanding topics rather than specific facts of cases, is the key to exams. Oh, and if at all possible, find old exams for each class. See if your professors will allow you to answer some old questions and have them take a look at them to give you advice. My experience is most won't do this, but some will, and it's extremely valuable. Having an idea of what the professor is looking for on the exam is invaluable.

This is all just my advice though. I could be totally wrong.

I agree with all of this, its good advice.

Definitely organize by topic. I do that for all of my outlines. Its really helpful for open book exams, since all the info on a particular type of law was right there in one spot, and for closed book since it was just easier to memorize that way. The only exception was one of my kookier professors who decided to put case-specific questions on a closed book exam, so for that one I just made flash cards for all of the cases and used those in addition to my normal outline (although I'm guessing this type of exam is rare and is something you won't see. If it is, I'm sure the prof will warn you ahead of time).

Definitely get your hands on old outlines and old exams too, both can be helpful. My advice on old outlines is to be kind of cautious though. Make sure to use them as an aid rather than a crutch (I hope that makes sense?). In my experience, I gained tremendous benefits by making the outlines themselves, not by simply having them in hand. They can be great to supplement parts of your outline and to help you get ideas on how to structure it, but trying my best to make them on my own rather than just copy pasting from a former student's work helped me learn a ton. Keep in mind though, this is just my preference. I know other very successful law students who would disagree with me, so just find out what works for you.

[BehindBlueyes16]

Originally Posted by thatgirl224

All of my friends in law say it's not really too hard, but it's massively time consuming. It's a lot of memorization or very dull facts and cases and such for the most part. But their classes are very interactive so it makes up for the monotony.

The massive time consumption is what gets most people. I had a professor tell me once that in his opinion, those who were most successful in law school were the students who kept up with all of their reading and their work down til the very end of the semester and didn't let the ridiculous amounts of work get them down. For the most part I agree. If you stay on top of your game and don't get behind, it will pay off big time. Memorization is part of law school too, but on exams, its the person who can apply the law in the most rational, clearly-explained, convincing, and even creative way is going to get the A, not the one who may be able to recite case facts or the black letter law like its the alphabet.

[joepsu0985]

Thanks for the advice. I do see what you mean, but as we read cases I can see where three cases form the overall picture of intent. So when they click together i add them to the outline under the topic. I think it helps that i note the court cases because it gives my brain something to reference. Kind of like map. Like Case A said this, but case B did this, and case C said this. I think that is going to help with exams. It helps with the hypotheticals for sure.

[SteelerMan]

Another thing... when outlining, look at the syllabus for the class. Professors who list all of the assignments for the semester typically group them by topics, so looking at the syllabus can be a great way of figuring out how to organize your outline.

And I disagree that law school "isn't really too hard." I have an MBA, and the MBA classes were a joke compared to law school. Then again, maybe it depends on what you want. If you just want to graduate, I suppose it's not that hard. But if you want to do extremely well and finish at the top of the class, it's incredibly difficult.

[HoldemHart]

Quick question for those in law school, I got a 3.517 GPA in my undergrad (BS in Public Administration and Marketing) and 3.538 in Grad school (Master of Public Administration).

How does that hold up for law school admissions? I realize that it's obviously not Ivey league or anything close but I was curious as to where I stood.

[SatelliteEyes]

^^^ You are fine, just dont fuck up your LSAT and you should be able to get in to a school in the Top 20-50 range.

In other news, I am about 2.5 years out of law school now (Go Wisconsin) and I just quit my job and am opening my own practice. The law part is fun, the business part can suck a fat dick.

[SatelliteEyes]

Originally Posted by jmudmbphan

any hot chicks in classes?

It's law school. Being the hottest chick in law school is like being valedictorian of summer school.

[BehindBlueyes16]

Originally Posted by SatelliteEyes

It's law school. Being the hottest chick in law school is like being valedictorian of summer school.

Nice comparison. Plus, in my experience anyway, seems like tons of people in law school are married/engaged.

[crew355]

i haven't read up, but i thought i'd share that i just started my 3L and i hate everything about this f*ing experience. just one man's opinion

[BehindBlueyes16]

Originally Posted by crew355

i haven't read up, but i thought i'd share that i just started my 3L and i hate everything about this f*ing experience. just one man's opinion

There are many times when I cling to the hope that it will all be better when I'm out in the working world instead of in school..... right?

[crew355]

Originally Posted by BehindBlueyes16

There are many times when I cling to the hope that it will all be better when I'm out in the working world instead of in school..... right?

i'm clerking two diff jobs now and i'm miserable in those too... i'm one of those "oops this isn't for me" law students... which is fantastic considering the debt i've amassed... i just recommend any prospective students be certain it's what you want to do. sorry don't mean to bring anyone down.

[crew355]

Originally Posted by BehindBlueyes16

There are many times when I cling to the hope that it will all be better when I'm out in the working world instead of in school..... right?

but yes, starting your life will and getting out of school will brighten everything. law school is so far from the real world. it's college i miss

[BehindBlueyes16]

Originally Posted by crew355

i'm clerking two diff jobs now and i'm miserable in those too... i'm one of those "oops this isn't for me" law students... which is fantastic considering the debt i've amassed... i just recommend any prospective students be certain it's what you want to do. sorry don't mean to bring anyone down.

Ah, I gotcha. Well I don't think I'm one of those, although only time will tell for sure. Unfortunately I think its one of those things where no matter how much you look into the legal profession and law school itself, nothing really prepares you for what its actually like. It's a risk you take when you sign yourself up. Anyway, there are so many things you can do with a JD, it may take you some time, but hopefully you'll find a niche somewhere that you enjoy.

[crew355]

Originally Posted by BehindBlueyes16

Ah, I gotcha. Well I don't think I'm one of those, although only time will tell for sure. Unfortunately I think its one of those things where no matter how much you look into the legal profession and law school itself, nothing really prepares you for what its actually like. It's a risk you take when you sign yourself up. Anyway, there are so many things you can do with a JD, it may take you some time, but hopefully you'll find a niche somewhere that you enjoy.

thanks for the thoughtful words, yes - i'm optimistic if not only because it's the most marketable degree out there. it absolutely will not be a waste - if i can just get out and pass the bar, i'll find interesting work somewhere.

what area interests you?

[BehindBlueyes16]

Originally Posted by crew355

thanks for the thoughtful words, yes - i'm optimistic if not only because it's the most marketable degree out there. it absolutely will not be a waste - if i can just get out and pass the bar, i'll find interesting work somewhere.

what area interests you?

I'm still not sure... although I have been asked that question a lot in OCI the past couple of weeks! This past summer I interned with a federal judge, so while I got plenty of legal writing practice, I still haven't been able to see much of how things work on the firm side of things. I don't think I'm cut out for litigation, but I haven't completely ruled it out either. I would love to do some kind of international work too, and corporate/transactional is more conducive to that anyway. My dream would be to get to practice overseas one day, but unfortunately so many of the firms which make that a realistic possibility are ultra-prestigious and very hard to get jobs with, so that dream may fall by the wayside.

What kind of firms are you clerking with right now?

[clayj41]

I'm four weeks in now, and I love it! It can be extremely time consuming, and the weekends fly by (as do the weeks thankfully), but I find it extremely rewarding. I'm sure my cynicism will start to shine once finals approach however.

[afritsch]

Originally Posted by BehindBlueyes16

Nice comparison. Plus, in my experience anyway, seems like tons of people in law school are married/engaged.

word. the one other domer here is like 27 and hitched (to another domer). but they let me watch the games on their nice tv, so its all good.

[BehindBlueyes16]

Originally Posted by afritsch

word. the one other domer here is like 27 and hitched (to another domer). but they let me watch the games on their nice tv, so its all good.

haha yeah neither of my domer friends is married or engaged, but they are both sport-obsessed boys who have very nice TVs and premium cable services, so it all works out quite nicely for me.

[Head In Hands]

whoever was talking about outlining by cases beware. i'm in my first semester as well and our professors have made it very clear that we are not to be discussing cases in our exams. unless a clear test came out of it (the international shoe test, etc.) but for the most part we are not supposed to be citing cases on our exams....at least at my school, check with your profs.

[AJF_41]

Originally Posted by dmbphan041

I know there's a few ants that have gone through, or that are in Law school right now, and I was just wondering what peoples experiences have been. I'm thinking I might end up giving it a go once I'm done my undergrad. My dad kinda wants me to take over the family business and I want to know from people if Law school really is as tough as people make it out to be. I'm just going into my second year as an undergrad next fall so it's a ways away yet, but something that's in my head more and more these days.

Oh and I'm looking to do either criminal or real estate but that's just what I'm thinking right now and that could always change.

what's the family business? spending 10+ hours a day on a website and starting a thread on every thought that crosses your mind?

business should be booming!