Ferguson riots

[Beefsteak1138]

Originally Posted by Lee3691

Because you are worried about trashcans.

Also, I think I saw pictures of your family once.

It's cool though, some people are lucky enough to live in places where LEO isn't militarized, and don't make mistakes that cost people lives like you. Hope you or family or friends never have interactions where your mind changes "because it happened to you"

Actually the SWAT team showed up at a few houses down a while back. Gassed the house and everything. It was pretty sweet.

[ForkInFork]

Originally Posted by dre2142

The rioters are throwing molotov cocktails....

what the fuck is going on here? the violent protestors are getting a pass on this shit? WTF

Violent protestors need to be contained and arrested, however here is a first hand account of an alderman for the city who was forcibly removed from his car and arrested last night. He states the molotov cocktail and apparent gunfire at police came after the police fired tear gas into a peaceful crowd. There was no violent actions until the police opened fire. That does not justify a response, but there seems to be a cause and effect here. He feels firm that in his particular location the violence did not start until the police became the aggressors.

http://www.ksdk.com/videos/news/loca...8/14/14048253/

All discussions aside regarding use of force against protesters and rioters, how can anyone justify using force against journalists and then moving in to disable their recording equipment?

[Lcsulla]

Originally Posted by ForkInFork

Deliberately gassing and firing beanbags/rubber bullets at journalists? Is this fucking Russia?

Sounds like Hartford in the late 1990's for DMB shows.....

Originally Posted by jcc522

I'm not sure what kind of gas they are using but if it is CS gas... fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck the police even harder, that stuff is hell.

Yeah, likely CS and I agree with you, that stuff sucks bad. Shit just sticks to you like nothing people can imagine. Thing is is has in the past two decades become SOP for police departments to deal with situations like this.

Originally Posted by barbogast

Anonymous released the name of the shooting officer

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheAnonMe...89410616606720

Dumb. Needlessly putting a target on the back of a cop before any charges have been brough.

Originally Posted by thebridge15

the "protesters" are just putting themselves in tear gas's way

This mindset makes no sense to me. Only an idiot intentionally puts themselves in a tear gas. If you have ever been on the wrong end of CS or rubber bullets you head the other way if you see it. If you have never been there think broken ribs with the glazer rounds and temp blindness, deafness and your mouth and nose dripping uncontrollably (CS) until you can take a whores shower on your face.

Originally Posted by HoldemHart

Yet when the idea of putting cameras on all cops, everyone screams about the cost.

Most of the police I know like the idea because it cuts down on BS complaints.

Originally Posted by ~Crashintome89~

Completely different situation, IMO. You were dealing with a terrorist attack.

Agreed. I will give them a lot more leeway after a terrorist attack.

[Lee3691]

Originally Posted by MOWJO8185

I agree that there is a much larger conversation that needs to be had, particularly in the relations that led to the initial shooting - but I'm not sure how the cops could have acted differently in the aftermath given the actions of the citizens, other than just to let it happen and let the city go to chaos, or else try to intervene with non-military force and likely get themselves hurt or killed.

Not arresting or tear gassing reporters is definitely something Law Enforcement could of done differently.

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by ForkInFork

Now who is putting words in peoples mouths? I don't think a single person said they are more concerned with loss of property than loss of life, but looting and rioting needs to be controlled in the aftermath of events like this.

That was just an editorial comment not directed at anyone here. I agree everyone here has made this distinction.

[thebridge15]

Originally Posted by Lcsulla

This mindset makes no sense to me. Only an idiot intentionally puts themselves in a tear gas. If you have ever been on the wrong end of CS or rubber bullets you head the other way if you see it. If you have never been there think broken ribs with the glazer rounds and temp blindness, deafness and your mouth and nose dripping uncontrollably (CS) until you can take a whores shower on your face.

I mean that the protests have accomplished nothing but get protesters attacked in the past couple days

[Jake]

I'm truly not following the case, but all I've heard is an unarmed teen put his hands up and "the police" shot him.


Feels like something is missing from the narrative.

[ForkInFork]

Originally Posted by Lcsulla

Agreed. I will give them a lot more leeway after a terrorist attack.

I understand the sentiment, but you would be ok with a swat team storming your house, rifles aimed at you and your family? There wasn't a request "hey have you heard or seen anything strange?" it was a "get the fuck out, we are coming in and if you resist you are going to be arrested." Thats some SS type shit right there.

[Lee3691]

Originally Posted by Beefsteak1138

Actually the SWAT team showed up at a few houses down a while back. Gassed the house and everything. It was pretty sweet.

Imagine if the SWAT team mistakenly gassed your house (with your children in it), or swarmed your house (with your children it) because they got the wrong address or a friend of friend was a CI and said you were a drug user/dealer. Wonder if your opinion on these matters would change.

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Lee3691

I don't dispute that people deserve what they get when voting for politicians, but the LEO culture isn't something that 99%+ of people think about when they vote, because it really isn't tied to publicly elected officials. Here's hoping more people/media focus on it, and that changes.

We vote on sheriffs and judges here, so it should be on their mind when voting but I really don't want to start a thing/tangent the thread. I was kind of half kidding.

Serioulsy though, it's hard to take these "protests" seriously when they're riots and looters. As someone else pointed out (paraphrasing here), at what point is taking booze protesting?

I will say, this story sounds pretty bad based on what I've read. I understand there is controversy surrounding whether or not the kid reached for the gun in the car. That being said, what I read stated (and made it sound like a fact) the officer shot once outside the car, at which point the kid put his hands up and then the cop fired again. I don't know how reliable that story is but if it's true, that's horrific.

[ForkInFork]

Originally Posted by Jake

I'm truly not following the case, but all I've heard is an unarmed teen put his hands up and "the police" shot him.


Feels like something is missing from the narrative.

Certainly not the whole story right now. There was a confirmed physical confrontation between the officer and the subject. The officers gun at some point was upholstered during the struggle and a round was fired. Subject was hit, began to run away. After that the details are not yet confirmed, but its not like a cop just rolled up and started blasting.

[Kevaroo]

Originally Posted by ForkInFork

I understand the sentiment, but you would be ok with a swat team storming your house, rifles aimed at you and your family? There wasn't a request "hey have you heard or seen anything strange?" it was a "get the fuck out, we are coming in and if you resist you are going to be arrested." Thats some SS type shit right there.

The scary part is that it's done by a title of a name, not the nature of the crime. If the police refer to anything as a terrorist attack at that point their actions are justified.

[Beefsteak1138]

Originally Posted by Lee3691

Imagine if the SWAT team mistakenly gassed your house (with your children in it), or swarmed your house (with your children it) because they got the wrong address or a friend of friend was a CI and said you were a drug user/dealer. Wonder if your opinion on these matters would change.

I wonder. If it happens, I will PM you the results asap.

[ForkInFork]

Originally Posted by rconverse

Serioulsy though, it's hard to take these "protests" seriously when they're riots and looters. As someone else pointed out (paraphrasing here), at what point is taking booze protesting?
.

There are two distinct groups. One is the (in general) peaceful and angry protesters. The other is the angry looters and riotors. The police seem to be coming down hard on the peaceful protesters and journalists instead of the violent ones.

The alderman left the sceen of the peaceful protest and went to his car after tear gas was fired. And officer approached his car with rifled aimed at him, and forcibly removed him from the vehicle and placed him under arrest. Upon asking what for, the officer told the elected official "for not listening"

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by MOWJO8185

I agree that there is a much larger conversation that needs to be had, particularly in the relations that led to the initial shooting - but I'm not sure how the cops could have acted differently in the aftermath given the actions of the citizens, other than just to let it happen and let the city go to chaos, or else try to intervene with non-military force and likely get themselves hurt or killed.

They need to be quicker to figure all this out though. They still have not released what they think happened.

To an extend, the cops ship was sunk before this ever happened. Apparently their relations with the community the are supposed to serve are so bad.

[Lee3691]

Originally Posted by Beefsteak1138

I wonder. If it happens, I will PM you the results asap.

Promise? Make sure you include an update on the trash cans when you do.

[Kevaroo]

Originally Posted by Lee3691

Imagine if the SWAT team mistakenly gassed your house (with your children in it), or swarmed your house (with your children it) because they got the wrong address or a friend of friend was a CI and said you were a drug user/dealer. Wonder if your opinion on these matters would change.

http://abcnews.go.com/News/baby-in-c....google.com%2F

You mean exactly what's happening here?

[ForkInFork]

Originally Posted by Kevaroo

The scary part is that it's done by a title of a name, not the nature of the crime. If the police refer to anything as a terrorist attack at that point their actions are justified.

BINGO! You are a criminal? You are guaranteed certain rights and due process. Government declares you a terrorist? You are allowed to be detained indefinitely without trial or consult of an attorney. Semantics.

"The detention sections of the NDAA begin by "affirm[ing]" that the authority of the President under the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF), a joint resolution passed in the immediate aftermath of the September 11, 2001 attacks, includes the power to detain, via the Armed Forces, any person, including a U.S. citizen,[13][21] "who was part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners", and anyone who commits a "belligerent act" against the United States or its coalition allies in aid of such enemy forces, under the law of war, "without trial, until the end of the hostilities authorized by the [AUMF]

[Lcsulla]

Originally Posted by Lee3691

Not arresting or tear gassing reporters is definitely something Law Enforcement could of done differently.

The alternative is the national guard though. Honest question, would you prefer that? While they may be more disciplined they are also more protected and heavily armed and trained for combat rather than law enforcement.

Originally Posted by Jake

I'm truly not following the case, but all I've heard is an unarmed teen put his hands up and "the police" shot him.


Feels like something is missing from the narrative.

Not sure, lot of different stories. I also read the dead kid tried to get the officers weapon. No idea of the truth, likely be a long in depth media trial.

Originally Posted by ForkInFork

I understand the sentiment, but you would be ok with a swat team storming your house, rifles aimed at you and your family? There wasn't a request "hey have you heard or seen anything strange?" it was a "get the fuck out, we are coming in and if you resist you are going to be arrested." Thats some SS type shit right there.

No, I would not but if it ever happened I would not give police any reason to use their weapons because I have been in some dicey situations with police and trigger happy drunks that has made me more tame in my reactions. The SS comparison is absurd to me though, they were not law enforcement officers, they were murderers in uniform enforcing policies from some of the most heinous individuals of the past 100 years.

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by ForkInFork

There are two distinct groups. One is the (in general) peaceful and angry protesters. The other is the angry looters and riotors. The police seem to be coming down hard on the peaceful protesters and journalists instead of the violent ones.

The alderman left the sceen of the peaceful protest and went to his car after tear gas was fired. And officer approached his car with rifled aimed at him, and forcibly removed him from the vehicle and placed him under arrest. Upon asking what for, the officer told the elected official "for not listening"

Both are reported on for the same thing though, so they're tied together like it or not.

[Ascf33]

Originally Posted by Beefsteak1138

I just want my trash cans back.

Post of the year candidate.

[Lee3691]

Originally Posted by Lcsulla

The alternative is the national guard though. Honest question, would you prefer that? While they may be more disciplined they are also more protected and heavily armed and trained for combat rather than law enforcement.

Good question - the answer is pretty clearly that LEOs take the 'military' mindset (& equipment), and apply it to the other 99% of their job that is just about policing. LEOs look at themselves as warriors, in conflict with citizens. That's not the role of police/law enforcement.

[Lee3691]

Originally Posted by Kevaroo

http://abcnews.go.com/News/baby-in-c....google.com%2F

You mean exactly what's happening here?

Such a sad story - and there are many more like this. Sadly, for a lot of people if doesn't happen to them, it doesn't matter.

[neumdogg]

Originally Posted by AJF_41

April 26th, 1992
there was a riot on streets
tell me where were you?

I was at home pissed off that the Clippers playoff game I had tickets to was postponed because of the riots.

#6thGradeWhiteProblems

[MOWJO8185]

Originally Posted by ForkInFork

There are two distinct groups. One is the (in general) peaceful and angry protesters. The other is the angry looters and riotors. The police seem to be coming down hard on the peaceful protesters and journalists instead of the violent ones.

The alderman left the sceen of the peaceful protest and went to his car after tear gas was fired. And officer approached his car with rifled aimed at him, and forcibly removed him from the vehicle and placed him under arrest. Upon asking what for, the officer told the elected official "for not listening"

I think the issue is that although they may be two distinct groups in terms of mindset, they are occupying the same space, so they aren't that distinct in terms being able to police the area. The peaceful protests have become violent because of the actions of a few within that group. I certainly agree that it seems the police are being very heavy-handed, and infringing on the rights of people who aren't doing anything wrong (the individual arrests of reporters/the alderman feel unacceptable to me), but if I were a cop, after what went down that first night, I would certainly feel safer being able to disperse gatherings from a distance with tear gas rather than trying to get in the middle of things.

It's a very complex situation, and the cops haven't handled it well at all, but I do feel like people are being very dismissive of the actions of residents in the city in the aftermath of the shooting that has put the police on such high alert, as if burning down shit and firing guns on the streets isn't a big deal.

[ForkInFork]

Originally Posted by Lcsulla

The SS comparison is absurd to me though, they were not law enforcement officers, they were murderers in uniform enforcing policies from some of the most heinous individuals of the past 100 years.

We are guaranteed protection from unreasonable searches of our premise by our Constitution. It was deemed important enough to be a critical law of the land. Officers in that instance were willing entering your house in in full military gear and rifles at the ready without warrent or cause. I don't see it as a far cry from the actions of SS and Gestapo.

"This decree, known as the Reichstag Fire Decree, suspended the provisions of the German constitution that protected basic individual rights, including freedom of the press, freedom of speech, and freedom of assembly. The decree also permitted increased state and police intervention into private life, allowing officials to censor mail, listen in on phone conversations, and search private homes without a warrant or need to show reasonable cause."

That Degree was done immediately in the wake of a "terrorist" attack against a location in germany as a means to make the people safer.

[dmbetc]

Both the police and the protesters/rioters are over stepping. People just pick a side and stick with it, rather than looking at the whole picture. The initial shooting does not look good for the police officers but that is in the hands of the grand jury to decide. The people of Ferguson are taking matters into their own hands and making it worse. They are fueling the fire that they want out.

The police are doing their jobs; protecting and serving the people of the community. Yes, this would not have happened had the initial shooting not occurred but that does not mean people aren't accountable for their actions (on both sides). The police didn't force people to destroy property. This is no longer a peaceful protest.

It's a very thin (blue) line that the officers have to walk everyday. The is going to get uglier before it gets better and unfortunately the "protesters" need to back down before it gets better. At least start being civil.

This hits very close to home, on the police officers side, and I am able to step back and look at both sides and see that both are right and both are wrong.

[ForkInFork]

Originally Posted by MOWJO8185

It's a very complex situation, and the cops haven't handled it well at all, but I do feel like people are being very dismissive of the actions of residents in the city in the aftermath of the shooting that has put the police on such high alert, as if burning down shit and firing guns on the streets isn't a big deal.

Completely correct here. There needs to be a police presense and reaction to the violent protestors. But acting forcefully against those that are clearly demonstrating peacefully will only shift more of the peaceful protestors to the violent spectrum.

Similar concept of "every terrorist killed by a drone strike creates 100 more through anger of civilian casualties" discussion.

[jcc522]

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

100% right about the looters and we have the police to blame for it.

Kill a teen when his hands are over the heads and people riot, innocent people get their stores looted.

Don't kill the teen no riots.

Everyone agrees the looters are thugs but that is on the cops, not the protesters or the dead kid.

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

I agree it's been coming and going to get worse.

When you create the income disparity we have today in the US this stuff is a foregone conclusion.

lol what a joke

Originally Posted by dre2142

thats embellishing what actually occured.....door to door searches in an area where he was suspected of hiding. Did people actually have an issue with this in the long run?

These terrorists were caught within 4 days. Maybe if more people were killed it wouldve been more justified in your eyes?

A warrantless search search is a warrentless search. Remind me again who discovered the terrorist. It was the big bad SWAT team searching door to door right?

[Kevaroo]

So I just read that even in the "peaceful" protests people were throwing Molotov cocktails and a cop broke his ankle from a brick thrown by a protester... People are crazy