BWGK on Vinyl - Page 13 - Antsmarching.org Forums - Dave Matthews Band Discussion
Old 06-06-2009, 12:05 AM   #361
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Re: BWGK on Vinyl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Millstone View Post


You must mean Alternative Audio/Diamond Groove on Hatt St, where I just picked up Neil Young's Harvest an hour ago. Great guys, but the prices aren't in lie with e-tailers and you should only use them if you really can't find something or need something immediately. Beware of some of the snake oil. I would recommend Amazon.ca wherever possible, select the Super Saver Shipping as it comes from Mississauga and takes only 1 day anyway.
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  • Old 06-06-2009, 01:21 AM   #362
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    dobyblue, millstone, and the other vinyl masters in this thread - you guys are amazing! your knowledge and advice is much appreciated for someone who's just getting (back) into vinyl.

    i have a question i hope one of you can answer - some of the vinyl I have sounds "fuzzy" on my system, i.e. seems like there's some distortion/fuzz, esp on the vocals. BWGK suffered from this (as did Umphrey's McGee's LPs), but the 40 yr old Aretha Franklin LP i was listening to yesterday had no such issues, nor did the re-issue of Siamese Dream or VU's Loaded, which sounded fantastic.

    i'm running a Stanton T.62 turntable with an Onkyo tuner/amplifier TX-8210 and some JBL bookshelf speakers that are probably kinda cheap. i've been cleaning the LPs with a solution/brush after taking them out of the sleeves. so i'm kinda wondering if it's my setup, the vinyl, or something else that i'm doing wrong that is producing this notable distortion. any help would be appreciated!!

    PS: everyone should be forced to listen to "Baby Blue" on vinyl. it sounds like Dave is singing right in my living room, and it's beautiful.
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    Old 06-06-2009, 02:18 AM   #363
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    We should create a thread in the correct forum, where all the vinyl masters can teach all of us a thing or two - I have a lot of cool records that I love to listen to (incl. BTCS) but I can't really REALLY tell the difference between a CD and vinyl which could have been nice because I'd appreciate it even more
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    Old 06-06-2009, 07:46 AM   #364
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lorentzen View Post
    We should create a thread in the correct forum, where all the vinyl masters can teach all of us a thing or two - I have a lot of cool records that I love to listen to (incl. BTCS) but I can't really REALLY tell the difference between a CD and vinyl which could have been nice because I'd appreciate it even more
    I'm pretty much in this boat
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    Old 06-06-2009, 08:13 AM   #365
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cswright View Post
    I came in here looking for this...... Sigh mine does it across all of disc C
    Then the copy is defective (seems a lot of people have various defects with this album, especially labelling) and should be returned/replaced.

    CDs used to have defective pressings too, but not as often.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lorentzen View Post
    We should create a thread in the correct forum, where all the vinyl masters can teach all of us a thing or two - I have a lot of cool records that I love to listen to (incl. BTCS) but I can't really REALLY tell the difference between a CD and vinyl which could have been nice because I'd appreciate it even more
    Well you do need the proper equipment. You can sometimes find a local audio store (like the one I was talking about earlier) which has demo equipment where you can bring in your vinyl or CDs or what have you and give them a listen to get a 'reference point'.

    However, if the vinyl copy has been pressed from a CD-quality digital master then you might as well be listening to the CD IMHO. It defeats the main purpose of getting it in this format and isn't worth the effort.

    I know Lillywhite used to love his analog tape and so the 'core 3' albums would have been recorded on tape. Stephen Harris was probably the same way (Busted Stuff). Glen Ballard would've probably done Some Devil and Everyday in some kind of digital, it sounds like it. Stand Up was in digital but who cares, and BW is more than likely in some kind of digital format.

    The great thing about analog tape is that it should retain every detail you're recording instead of sampling it into digital as was explained on page 1. If you go straight from a tape to an LP with no digital conversion in the lathe then you've theoretically preserved as much as possible. Dave Frusciante is a big analog proponent and so all their stuff is recorded to tape -- pick up Stadium Arcadium on vinyl to hear the difference between the 'loud' CD.

    So if you get BW on vinyl you're probably getting (SHOULD, hopefully be getting) the 24-bit 96kHz/192kHz master copy played back through the cutting lathe. This would give an obvious sonic advantage over 16/44.1 CDs and is still acceptable -- most 'new' releases you buy on LP would be the same thing, hi-res digital converted to analog. Personally I'm a fan of keeping it all on tape as much as possible.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigredjeff View Post
    i have a question i hope one of you can answer - some of the vinyl I have sounds "fuzzy" on my system, i.e. seems like there's some distortion/fuzz, esp on the vocals. BWGK suffered from this (as did Umphrey's McGee's LPs), but the 40 yr old Aretha Franklin LP i was listening to yesterday had no such issues, nor did the re-issue of Siamese Dream or VU's Loaded, which sounded fantastic.
    Are you hearing it near the end of a side?

    Last edited by Millstone; 06-06-2009 at 08:17 AM.
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    Old 06-06-2009, 08:26 AM   #366
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by claypitz1189 View Post
    Is anybody else's vinyl mislabled? Mine has switched side b with side c. It's strange
    Mine is too! I doubt it is widespread though otherwise more people would be mentioning it.

    Mine is actually labeled in the right order disc wise, A, B, C, D, but the songs listed for side B should be on side C and vice versa, and the right songs are in the right order.

    That what you have?

    I guess we have collector's items now.
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    Old 06-06-2009, 09:49 AM   #367
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Millstone View Post
    Personally I'm a fan of keeping it all on tape as much as possible.
    Completely agree with you there. Sad part is though with the digital medium now pretty much standard, tape is almost becoming obsolete. This works ok for a band like DMB or a major label artist who can afford to record to tape.

    But if you're just starting out or newly signed and you can spend $1,000 on a couple drives and store your entire project or spend the same amount on a couple reels of tape and can only keep a few songs on there the choice will be obvious.

    Coupled with the fact that your average listener doesn't have a clue/give a rats ass about sound quality, it's an analogue uphill battle.

    I would love to go back to the day where all artists recorded to tape. But it's such an expensive thing to do (cost of tape, tape machine, maintenance) I don't see it happening anytime soon sadly.
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    Old 06-06-2009, 10:56 AM   #368
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Millstone View Post
    Are you hearing it near the end of a side?
    Not necessarily. On BWGK, I noticed it most on SMLAM, where it was almost like the wall of sound was overwhelming the speakers/amp/whatever. Baby Blue sounded better because it was quieter, but I still noticed a "fuzz" in Dave's voice. There seemed to be no rhyme or reason to which songs it was most prominent in. On my Umphrey's record, it was very clearly the first couple of tracks, then it seemed to clear up.
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    Old 06-06-2009, 11:49 AM   #369
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    This is the first album I have really listened to on vinyl and I have a couple of questions about the sound of the record.

    Is there supposed to be a faint crackling sound during quiet parts of a song?
    What is anti skating for?
    I have a knob at the back of the arm, what does that do?
    My arm seems to be wobbling side to side, can this be fixed?
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    Old 06-06-2009, 02:12 PM   #370
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ravenjames View Post
    This is the first album I have really listened to on vinyl and I have a couple of questions about the sound of the record.

    Is there supposed to be a faint crackling sound during quiet parts of a song?
    On a dirty, scratched or staticky record, yes it's normal. On a clean one you won't get it. Keep in mind that dust loves to get into the grooves!
    Quote:
    What is anti skating for?
    The natural motion of the record pulls the tonearm toward the centre of it. Anti-skating applies a force in the other direction to counterbalance it. It is usually set to the same force as the VTF (vertical tracking force) but there can be exceptions.
    Quote:
    I have a knob at the back of the arm, what does that do?
    This is a weight to properly set the VTF of the cartridge & stylus. You will need to Google this to set it up properly; right now you could be doing some damage to the record. Find out what kind of cartridge you have and if you can find the weight and anti-skate you need (probably around 1.5g) and get the weight balanced to 0 properly. Again, Google has some great resources for setting this up...
    Quote:
    My arm seems to be wobbling side to side, can this be fixed?
    Maybe the record is warped, or the hole isn't punched in the dead centre. Try a different record to see if it happens. If you can hear a "wow-ing" of the song then you might want to get it exchanged...
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    Old 06-06-2009, 03:05 PM   #371
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OldLikeJoel View Post
    Mine is too! I doubt it is widespread though otherwise more people would be mentioning it.

    Mine is actually labeled in the right order disc wise, A, B, C, D, but the songs listed for side B should be on side C and vice versa, and the right songs are in the right order.

    That what you have?

    I guess we have collector's items now.
    Possibly collector's items - but I think most if not all of the first pressing has the mislabeled sides 'B' and 'C.' I know the vinyl copies I have are like that - and I've heard from others the same thing.
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    Old 06-06-2009, 04:03 PM   #372
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    should i take my cracked clicking side C to the store i bought it at or contact MusicToday
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    Quote:
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    u guys who insist that song is not sister are dumb. do u not know about the bonus disk or what? its obviously sister. theres no way that song is going to be called my baby blue. dave loves sister and its not like hes gonna take the same musical components and put it in a completely different song
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    Old 06-06-2009, 04:32 PM   #373
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    By the way, does anybody really know exactly how many BTCS on vinyl there are? Is it 1000 copy's? Just curious.
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    Old 06-06-2009, 04:51 PM   #374
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    BTCS Vinyl is on Ebay right now bidding is at $155.00
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    Old 06-06-2009, 06:32 PM   #375
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hurley711 View Post
    BTCS Vinyl is on Ebay right now bidding is at $155.00
    I just sold a used copy for about ~US$215, bought a new one for US$375. Apparently they've gone for much, much higher.
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    Old 06-06-2009, 06:49 PM   #376
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    I'll see if I can needledrop this record somehow. It'll be my first attempt. I don't own a separate pre-amp and might need one.
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    Old 06-06-2009, 08:24 PM   #377
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Millstone View Post
    On a dirty, scratched or staticky record, yes it's normal. On a clean one you won't get it. Keep in mind that dust loves to get into the grooves!
    The natural motion of the record pulls the tonearm toward the centre of it. Anti-skating applies a force in the other direction to counterbalance it. It is usually set to the same force as the VTF (vertical tracking force) but there can be exceptions.This is a weight to properly set the VTF of the cartridge & stylus. You will need to Google this to set it up properly; right now you could be doing some damage to the record. Find out what kind of cartridge you have and if you can find the weight and anti-skate you need (probably around 1.5g) and get the weight balanced to 0 properly. Again, Google has some great resources for setting this up...
    Maybe the record is warped, or the hole isn't punched in the dead centre. Try a different record to see if it happens. If you can hear a "wow-ing" of the song then you might want to get it exchanged...
    I have a sony ps-212 turntable with a Sony nd-136G cartridge. Could you help me locate a website that has the correct settings. I would hate to damage my record.
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    Old 06-06-2009, 08:29 PM   #378
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hurley711 View Post
    BTCS Vinyl is on Ebay right now bidding is at $155.00
    Thats cheap
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    Old 06-06-2009, 08:32 PM   #379
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ravenjames View Post
    I have a sony ps-212 turntable with a Sony nd-136G cartridge. Could you help me locate a website that has the correct settings. I would hate to damage my record.
    The only thing I can find on that is that it's possibly a conical needle which isn't going to give you the best fidelity. You might want to head over to lpgear.com and see if you can pick something new up with at least an elliptical stylus, maybe an Audio Technica cart or something.
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    Old 06-06-2009, 09:35 PM   #380
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by made2heal View Post
    By the way, does anybody really know exactly how many BTCS on vinyl there are? Is it 1000 copy's? Just curious.
    Matt says it's 1000 - he seems to be sure about it
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    Old 06-07-2009, 04:20 AM   #381
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    I guess I'll be waiting until August 4 to see if my stickers and records are messed up.
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    Old 06-07-2009, 08:46 AM   #382
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Millstone View Post
    I'll see if I can needledrop this record somehow. It'll be my first attempt. I don't own a separate pre-amp and might need one.
    There is very little point in doing a needledrop if you don't have a dedicated preamp.
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    Old 06-07-2009, 08:59 AM   #383
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post
    There is very little point in doing a needledrop if you don't have a dedicated preamp.
    You can't match the RIAA curve in software somehow?
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    Old 06-07-2009, 07:00 PM   #384
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Millstone View Post
    You can't match the RIAA curve in software somehow?
    I've never heard of that being done.
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    Old 06-07-2009, 07:08 PM   #385
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Just got this on vinyl like on Wednesday. Probably going to wait a yr to open it. Good stuff.
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    Old 06-07-2009, 07:12 PM   #386
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post
    I've never heard of that being done.
    Well guess what
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    Old 06-07-2009, 10:13 PM   #387
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    i waited five days to christen this vinyl artwork. good sound and mislabeled like all the other first pressings i imagine. mine came with some factory scratches but so what. love it. this ALBUM was meant to be played loud.
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    Old 06-07-2009, 10:36 PM   #388
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    i just unearthed my pioneer pl-560 from 1979 and went to play big whiskey today and my stylus (circa 1980-81) just pretty much disentigrated.

    its an empire 2000z cartridge..no one around where i live carrys one..where can i get it?
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    Old 06-07-2009, 10:45 PM   #389
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Pablo23 View Post
    Just got this on vinyl like on Wednesday. Probably going to wait a yr to open it. Good stuff.
    Why?
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    Old 06-07-2009, 10:53 PM   #390
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Millstone View Post
    Well you do need the proper equipment. You can sometimes find a local audio store (like the one I was talking about earlier) which has demo equipment where you can bring in your vinyl or CDs or what have you and give them a listen to get a 'reference point'.

    However, if the vinyl copy has been pressed from a CD-quality digital master then you might as well be listening to the CD IMHO. It defeats the main purpose of getting it in this format and isn't worth the effort.

    I know Lillywhite used to love his analog tape and so the 'core 3' albums would have been recorded on tape. Stephen Harris was probably the same way (Busted Stuff). Glen Ballard would've probably done Some Devil and Everyday in some kind of digital, it sounds like it. Stand Up was in digital but who cares, and BW is more than likely in some kind of digital format.

    The great thing about analog tape is that it should retain every detail you're recording instead of sampling it into digital as was explained on page 1. If you go straight from a tape to an LP with no digital conversion in the lathe then you've theoretically preserved as much as possible. Dave Frusciante is a big analog proponent and so all their stuff is recorded to tape -- pick up Stadium Arcadium on vinyl to hear the difference between the 'loud' CD.

    So if you get BW on vinyl you're probably getting (SHOULD, hopefully be getting) the 24-bit 96kHz/192kHz master copy played back through the cutting lathe. This would give an obvious sonic advantage over 16/44.1 CDs and is still acceptable -- most 'new' releases you buy on LP would be the same thing, hi-res digital converted to analog. Personally I'm a fan of keeping it all on tape as much as possible.
    Wow - thanks

    Do you think that my Denon AVR 1604 along with my Denon DP 29F is okay? I have some Dali Blue 5005 speakers.

    I haven't spent a fortune on either when I bought the stuff around 4 years ago. I guess in Denmark it cost me 8600 danish kroner in total (surround reciever, 5 speakers and later on, the turntable)
    I guess that would be around 1500/1600 dollars back then.

    I like how both music sounds but also movies sound on this reciever
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