Guitar Theory - Page 5 - Antsmarching.org Forums - Dave Matthews Band Discussion
Old 05-30-2007, 11:32 AM   #121
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Re: Guitar Theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedevoss6 View Post
Yeah it's a progression for a song. The assignment is to identify the key changes and state what the keys are and in what position of the key they're in(1, 2, 5, etc). I'm not familiar with (major-minor, minor-minor, etc) so I don't think that's it.
ahhh... well in looking at the progression... it follows the circle of fourths if you're in the key of A dorian. I'd say your biggest indicators are your dominant 7th chords. Many times, they tonicize a "new key" or a brief modulation to one. So I'd look at your dominant 7th chords and see if they really set off the chord after them as a "new key". (and by dominany 7th chords, I mean major chords with a minor seventh on the top - D7 and B7 in your case). and the half diminished F# chord could also be an indicator. half diminished chords often times resolve to the major chord a half step up from their root. (as opposed to fully diminished chords resolving to the minor chord a whole step lower than the root of the chord.)
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  • Old 05-30-2007, 11:36 AM   #122
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by whiteysax View Post
    ahhh... well in looking at the progression... it follows the circle of fourths if you're in the key of A dorian. I'd say your biggest indicators are your dominant 7th chords. Many times, they tonicize a "new key" or a brief modulation to one. So I'd look at your dominant 7th chords and see if they really set off the chord after them as a "new key". (and by dominany 7th chords, I mean major chords with a minor seventh on the top - D7 and B7 in your case). and the half diminished F# chord could also be an indicator. half diminished chords often times resolve to the major chord a half step up from their root. (as opposed to fully diminished chords resolving to the minor chord a whole step lower than the root of the chord.)
    Yeah he said those dominant 7ths are important in signifying key changes. I think I'm starting to understand it. Thanks a lot, man.
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    Old 05-30-2007, 11:40 AM   #123
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mikedevoss6 View Post
    Yeah he said those dominant 7ths are important in signifying key changes. I think I'm starting to understand it. Thanks a lot, man.
    yep... just remember your chord functions. (and here's a mini lesson) When I said major-major seventh chord, you're using them right now... you just don't know it. It's a major chord with a major 7th on top - just like the Gmaj7 in your example. If you play it, it sounds "stable" for the most part. It serves tonic function, therefore it doesn't feel like it needs to pull or go to another chord. If you turn that F# into an F-natural and play the same chord as a G7 (which is also a major-minor 7th or domininant 7th chord), it feels like it needs to go somewhere. Your ear should hear the 7th pulling down a half step (to the E) and the 3rd (or leading tone of the tonicized chord) pulling up a half step (to the C). That leaves the root of the 7th chord which remains stable (the G) giving you a C major chord. Therefore we say that major-minor chords serve as dominant function - they want to lead to a stable, tonic chord. That is why dominant 7th chords are important when determining keys and modulations.
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    Old 05-31-2007, 03:25 PM   #124
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mikedevoss6 View Post
    So I'm working on finding keys and key changes and my teacher forgot to write down anything about them before telling me to analyze. I know that these are what I need to use:

    Major minor minor Major Major minor minor
    Major minor minor Major Dominant minor Diminished

    and maybe there's one for minor keys but I really have no clue. I get it for most songs but these with 7ths and stuff are screwing me up. Here is the chord progression:

    Am7 D7 Gmaj7 Cmaj7 F#ø B7 Em7
    Those first five are in G. Then the last two are E minor.
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    Old 05-31-2007, 06:07 PM   #125
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    What do you call a chord with B, D#, and A in it?
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    Old 05-31-2007, 06:12 PM   #126
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mikedevoss6 View Post
    What do you call a chord with B, D#, and A in it?
    well the B-D# indicates a root and 3rd of a B major and since there is no fifth we are to assume it is a perfect fifth and so therefore is is a B major with an A the minor 7th note. So major-minor 7th chord or dominant 7th so B7
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    Old 05-31-2007, 07:23 PM   #127
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by boonie View Post
    well the B-D# indicates a root and 3rd of a B major and since there is no fifth we are to assume it is a perfect fifth and so therefore is is a B major with an A the minor 7th note. So major-minor 7th chord or dominant 7th so B7

    the 5th scale degree of a chord can be omitted because it normally doesn't decide the tonality of the chord whereas the 3rd of the chord determines if it is major or minor. If you play those 3 notes on a keyboard, you'll hear the dominant function
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    Old 06-02-2007, 12:55 AM   #128
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    So I've got these chords again and I'm not sure about a few things. Here is what I have so far. Can anyone help?

    1. Gmaj7 Gm7 C7 Fmaj7 Fm7 Bb7 Ebmaj7 Ahalfdim D7

    Keys: F Eb



    2. Gmaj7 Cmaj7 Bm7 E7 Am7 D7 Gmaj7 Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 C#m7 F#7 Bm7 E7 Am7 D7

    Keys: G C B A


    As for the chords that have no color- I don't know how to classify them in terms of keys. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.
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    Old 06-04-2007, 11:29 AM   #129
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mikedevoss6 View Post
    So I've got these chords again and I'm not sure about a few things. Here is what I have so far. Can anyone help?

    1. Gmaj7 Gm7 C7 Fmaj7 Fm7 Bb7 Ebmaj7 Ahalfdim D7

    Keys: F Eb



    2. Gmaj7 Cmaj7 Bm7 E7 Am7 D7 Gmaj7 Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 C#m7 F#7 Bm7 E7 Am7 D7

    Keys: G C B A


    As for the chords that have no color- I don't know how to classify them in terms of keys. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.
    does your prof give you a number of tonalities you're looking for? Are you looking for modulations or just specifying the tonal centers throughout the progression.
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    Old 06-04-2007, 11:44 AM   #130
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mikedevoss6 View Post
    So I've got these chords again and I'm not sure about a few things. Here is what I have so far. Can anyone help?

    1. Gmaj7 Gm7 C7 Fmaj7 Fm7 Bb7 Ebmaj7 Ahalfdim D7

    Keys: F Eb



    2. Gmaj7 Cmaj7 Bm7 E7 Am7 D7 Gmaj7 Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 C#m7 F#7 Bm7 E7 Am7 D7

    Keys: G C B A


    As for the chords that have no color- I don't know how to classify them in terms of keys. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.
    ok... actually sat down at a keyboard now... I'm hearing a lot of pivot chords... not sure where you're at in theory class or if you've talked about pivot chords... they function in 2 keys... tend to serve one function in the key you're already working in and a dual function in a new key you're going to. In your first example.. I'm hearing a common ii-V-I jazz progression:
    Code:
    Gmaj7   Gm7   C7   Fmaj7
      ii    ii7   V7     I
    Then I hear the Fmaj7 as the pivot chord... becoming the ii chord for the next ii-V-I progression.
    Code:
    Fmaj7   Fm7   Bb7   Ebmaj7
      ii    ii7   V7       I
    As for teh last 2 chords... it would be a very strange variation on the progression... but if it repeats back to the G:
    Code:
    A half-dim   D7   Gmaj7
         ii      V7     I
    It's odd though, because A half-dim and Ebmaj7 don't at all serve the same function, so cannot be substituted and considered the same function for a pivot chord
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    Old 06-04-2007, 12:03 PM   #131
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mikedevoss6 View Post
    2. Gmaj7 Cmaj7 Bm7 E7 Am7 D7 Gmaj7 Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 C#m7 F#7 Bm7 E7 Am7 D7

    Keys: G C B A
    as for this second one... I'm hearing 4 sections:
    Code:
    Gmaj:
    Gmaj7 - Cmaj7 - Bm7 - E7 - Am7 - D7 - Gmaj7
      I  -   IV  -  iii - V/ii- ii - V7 -  I
    
    keeping in mind that ii and V both serve dominant funtion... tonicizing ii and leading to V are all still preparing you for the tonic I
    Code:
    Cmaj:
    Dm7 - G7 - Cmaj7
     ii - V7 -  I
    
    Code:
    Bmin:
    C#m7 - F#7 - Bm7
     ii -  V7 -  i
    Code:
    Dmaj:
    E7 - Am7 - D7
     ii - V7 - I
    with this one... the fact that it lands on a dominant 7th chord would suggest that it repeats back to the G at the beginning.. in which case you'd have a progression much like the first one with E being a V/ii, A being the ii, D7 being your V7 and G being your I. Being that you used that exact progression for the first sequence in G, it's quite possible.

    see a pattern here? you throw 7th on yoru chords and your can go ii-V-I through the circle of 5th all day using I as a pivot chord!
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    Old 06-04-2007, 12:44 PM   #132
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    Wow! Thanks a lot.

    We haven't talked about pivot chords or even tonalities, actually. It's supposed to be a really general, base kind of thing where I identify all the keys and the chords' positions in the key.
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    Old 06-04-2007, 12:47 PM   #133
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mikedevoss6 View Post
    Wow! Thanks a lot.

    We haven't talked about pivot chords or even tonalities, actually. It's supposed to be a really general, base kind of thing where I identify all the keys and the chords' positions in the key.
    then i'd bank a lot on that ii-V-I pattern.. it's the most common progression in jazz and with all the 7th chords... it really does look like a jazz theory assignment
    good luck!
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    Old 07-09-2007, 05:19 PM   #134
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    Can anyone help me with me pentonic scale, and the 5 stages of it?
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    Old 07-09-2007, 06:45 PM   #135
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Acoustacism View Post
    Can anyone help me with me pentonic scale, and the 5 stages of it?
    you mean how to form a penatonic scale?
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    Old 12-05-2007, 08:16 PM   #136
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    I know this was all posted some time ago, but does anyone have the word doc that has all this information in it? Just the little I read on the first page is really interesting and I would like to be able to print it out and read and be able to write notes on it.

    Thanks to anyone who can help
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    Old 12-06-2007, 06:52 PM   #137
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    I second this request. Great stuff and i'm a onto the second page but it would be nice to have this printed out for when i go back to my parent's house (56k internet).
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    Old 12-11-2007, 08:03 AM   #138
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bdj1311 View Post
    I know this was all posted some time ago, but does anyone have the word doc that has all this information in it? Just the little I read on the first page is really interesting and I would like to be able to print it out and read and be able to write notes on it.

    Thanks to anyone who can help
    *crickets*
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    Old 12-26-2007, 07:34 PM   #139
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    i have it, if you want it hit me up on AIM or email me: unccrombie@hotmail.com
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    Old 01-01-2008, 11:21 AM   #140
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    I have it too...
    BTW...hey everybody!

    I haven't been on here in ages...but I'm still around!
    -A
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    Old 01-22-2008, 08:35 AM   #141
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Acoustacism View Post
    Can anyone help me with me pentonic scale, and the 5 stages of it?
    I recently found a youtube video with this info... so if you search Pentatonic scale, you should find a butt load
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    Old 03-15-2008, 05:48 PM   #142
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but I figure there is definitely enough musically intelligent people in here to maybe help answer my question. Is there a name for this type of chord formation?

    e--x--
    B--3--
    G--2--
    D--4--
    A--5--
    E--x--

    John Frusciante uses chord formations like this kind of frequently and I was just wondering if there is a name for that chord formation or if it is just a variation of a chord or if it is just pertinent to Frusciante or what. Any input would be appriciated. Thanks.
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    Old 03-16-2008, 07:50 AM   #143
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    its pretty much just a major chord from my understanding. Its the same positioning as a normal C major chord. It has a root, 3rd, 5th and the major again. so major it is. its pretty much just like a power chord but it would give much more full sound to it.
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    Old 03-16-2008, 08:08 AM   #144
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bennettr View Post
    its pretty much just a major chord from my understanding. Its the same positioning as a normal C major chord. It has a root, 3rd, 5th and the major again. so major it is. its pretty much just like a power chord but it would give much more full sound to it.
    Ah yes. I didn't even think about that. I've played guitar for about 4 years now, but I am basically musically illiterate . I know my chords and keys and what not but thats about the extent to which my musical knowledge extends. Thank you for the input
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    Old 03-16-2008, 03:56 PM   #145
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dmb41nancies34 View Post
    Ah yes. I didn't even think about that. I've played guitar for about 4 years now, but I am basically musically illiterate . I know my chords and keys and what not but thats about the extent to which my musical knowledge extends. Thank you for the input
    I was the same way at 4 years. Im like on like 5 now or something. I used to think that theory was some confusing and magical knowledge that people get when they piano for like 8 years studying the sizukie(sp?) method. But it's no mystery, the more you learn the more simple it seems.
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    Old 10-21-2008, 09:36 AM   #146
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    Does anyone in here compose for a guitar as the main instrument?
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    Old 01-03-2009, 12:38 PM   #147
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    dude this thread is deadddddddddd i think it should come back
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    Old 01-06-2009, 10:33 AM   #148
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    cuz i <3 theory and guitar
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    Old 01-06-2009, 10:36 AM   #149
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    what do you wanna discuss?
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    Old 01-09-2009, 05:26 PM   #150
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    Re: Guitar Theory

    Trying to give every chord in a progression a name can at times overcomplicate things. Try to think of chord changes as movements of individual notes in individual melodies. A movement in the bass melody may put a particular chord in an unusual inversion, which might give it a complicated chord name, when the important thing is the movement in the bass, NOT the name of the resulting chord. And like a previous poster already stated, some chords may be functioning as "pivot" chords to other keys. It is not too uncommon for pop songs to modulate keys, even midverse. So understanding chord names is important, no doubt, but don't let it overshadow the most important thing, which is the FUNCTION off the chord, which relates to the intertwining melodies of the notes composing the chords, which is giving the song that tremendous quality that you're looking for.
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