A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

[junior94]

and also as far as the whole Jon Snow saga and all the flashbacks, it occurred to me so much of it really wound up on essentially a coin flip. I mean given the lineage, Jon had an equal 50/50 chance of being born with black hair or blond hair, right? It seems to me if it had been the latter, he would've been A LOT fucking harder to hide.

[junior94]

Originally Posted by trd1610

No problem

And it was 3x6 to 3x9 for the red wedding.

There was very little time. But the wheels were rolling at that point and only Roose knew about Jamie's hand.

oh wait, DUH. total brain fart, I was thinking the Red Wedding didn't happen til season 4. well okay than yea, it WAS a fair thing for me to think then

(just realizing, I'm confusing with the Purple Wedding)

[trd1610]

Originally Posted by junior94

and also as far as the whole Jon Snow saga and all the flashbacks, it occurred to me so much of it really wound up on essentially a coin flip. I mean given the lineage, Jon had an equal 50/50 chance of being born with black hair or blond hair, right? It seems to me if it had been the latter, he would've been A LOT fucking harder to hide.

The Targaryen traits are recessive I believe. Which also plays in to the whole "keeping the bloodlines pure" type thing. Anytime that a Targ didn't have both distinct features, silvery hair and purple eyes, it was usually because they were a bastard or it was one of the instances of nonTarg-Targ matches.

[Drwbllz]

Originally Posted by junior94

and also as far as the whole Jon Snow saga and all the flashbacks, it occurred to me so much of it really wound up on essentially a coin flip. I mean given the lineage, Jon had an equal 50/50 chance of being born with black hair or blond hair, right? It seems to me if it had been the latter, he would've been A LOT fucking harder to hide.

Originally Posted by trd1610

The Targaryen traits are recessive I believe. Which also plays in to the whole "keeping the bloodlines pure" type thing. Anytime that a Targ didn't have both distinct features, silvery hair and purple eyes, it was usually because they were a bastard or it was one of the instances of nonTarg-Targ matches.

Was going to post this exact thing. Glad I kept reading!

[junior94]

I found yesterday what seemed like a more than fair point in a youtube comments section, of all places. Now that so much of the north has happily sworn their loyalty and everything to Jon Snow, well so, he didn't actually tell any of them what really happened, did he? About the whole murder and resurrection? just because, without them knowing about that, how's come apparently nobody has any problem at all with him seemingly just walking away from the Nights Watch? Granted even if they didn't necessarily know he'd been appointed the Lord Commander, but still ANY man up there, if they desert then penalty is automatically death (as even clearly set up way back in the pilot episode).

I don't know, would you consider that just a nitpick? it feels a legit thing to me.

[Roose13]

Trying to answer that abortion of a question as best I can:

I thought I remembered Snow telling people he was resurrected when recruiting them. And if not, regardless he's relieved of his watch because he technically died already.

[smokew11]

I'm not sure its a nit pick, I'd consider that a legitimate question. That said, I think the entire north has seen the way things have gone since a Stark didn't rule Winterfell. Anyone swearing fealty to Ramsay was doing so out of fear

[junior94]

Originally Posted by Roose13

Trying to answer that abortion of a question as best I can:

oh dear, I'm so eternally sorry I failed to live up to your standards with my query. I would go to the wall myself to repent for my crimes from this day til my last day.

I thought I remembered Snow telling people he was resurrected when recruiting them. And if not, regardless he's relieved of his watch because he technically died already.

I know that, and actually I 100% agree with you. In the objective sense I have no problem with Jon being able to leave the wall because, yes, he died. But the entire point of the question was if the people he was asking to follow him were aware of that.

[trd1610]

I don't think it's nit picky, it's a fair question, but at the same time I think that we can assume he probably told a lot of them about it. Or word at least spread about it, considering all the Wildlings know, Mel knows, Davos knows, Sansa knows, any one of them could've told someone and things spread from there.

At the same time a lot of the lords throughout the realm have a terrible opinion of the watch. Granted the north holds them in a bit higher of regard. That it's just rapists, thieves, and criminals. And they know that it has basically been decimated and all that's left is a hundred guys, if that. They also now know, at least the northern lords, about the real threat of the WW and the undead army, so they are all about to be defacto men of the Nights Watch anyways.

I think at this point all preconceived notions of structure, inheritance, etc. when applied to the throne, individual kingdoms of the 7, or orders like the Night's Watch have been thrown out the window. Cersei's on the thrown with no real claim, Jon's a bastard, Tyrell and Martel and Greyjoy are about to try and take back the throne for Dany, when a queen has never ruled, same with Asha and Iron Islands.

Also once Jon told Edd the wall was his, Ravens were probably sent out announcing a new lord commander as a result of Jon's death.

[Drwbllz]

Originally Posted by trd1610

I don't think it's nit picky, it's a fair question, but at the same time I think that we can assume he probably told a lot of them about it. Or word at least spread about it, considering all the Wildlings know, Mel knows, Davos knows, Sansa knows, any one of them could've told someone and things spread from there.

At the same time a lot of the lords throughout the realm have a terrible opinion of the watch. Granted the north holds them in a bit higher of regard. That it's just rapists, thieves, and criminals. And they know that it has basically been decimated and all that's left is a hundred guys, if that. They also now know, at least the northern lords, about the real threat of the WW and the undead army, so they are all about to be defacto men of the Nights Watch anyways.

I think at this point all preconceived notions of structure, inheritance, etc. when applied to the throne, individual kingdoms of the 7, or orders like the Night's Watch have been thrown out the window. Cersei's on the thrown with no real claim, Jon's a bastard, Tyrell and Martel and Greyjoy are about to try and take back the throne for Dany, when a queen has never ruled, same with Asha and Iron Islands.

Also once Jon told Edd the wall was his, Ravens were probably sent out announcing a new lord commander as a result of Jon's death.

I thought they weren't, though. Isn't that why Sam had to explain the change when he got to the Citadel?

[lieinmygrave41]

So we've got two seasons remaining. I'm guessing the plot lines will start accelerating and season 6 will see a few main characters die (Littlefinger, Cersei, Jamie, Brienne, Podrick, maybe Arya during a failed assassination), but what happens to Essos and that whole continent? The show runners spent almost 3 seasons in Mereen and now it's all supposed to be under Daario's handling? How do they resolve that plot while also showing the Targaryen invasion and subsequent White Walker war? Does Jaquen show up again? What happens to Jorah? Where is Gendry? He's the last remaining "Baratheon."

I think Dany will conquer King's Landing, learn of the White Walkers and during a battle with Winterfell, one of the dragons stops to investige Jon. Because Jon has Targaryen blood, the dragon allows Jon to climb on him, basically ending the battle and forming an alliance between the South and the North (now that Jon is King of the North). The Iron Borns will be obliterated by their internal political turmoil and betrayal, killing off Yara, Euron, and Theon. Dany and Jon marry each other, which is the end of season 6. During season 7, one of the dragons becomes an ice dragon (which the show and books has alluded to) and ends up fighting for the white walkers. This dragon ends up killing Dany or Jon. The plight of their spouse's death causes them to commit suicide. Ser Davos survives all of this and so does Tyrion and Sansa. In the end, Sansa is the queen, Tyron is hand of the Queen, and Davos is head of the Queensguard. The camera pans out of King's Landing, up and up, past the clouds and into the optical lenses of the Citadel library and back down into the large room revealed to us in Season 6. It's 20 years in the future now. Samuel Tarly is the Maester of the Citadel, teaching children of the War of the Three Kings and the Song of Fire and Ice. His son is his apprentice and Gilly leans against a small bookcase, smiling at Sam.

The last 5 minutes of the show pan to a small town north of the wall, so far north we've never been there. A hand protrudes out of the ground. He reaches for the soil and claws at it with his ruby-studded hand. It's a forgotten Night King, supposedly usurped and left to die by the formerly slaughtered Night King. /fin

The Song of Fire and Ice is perpetual. The epilogue is Bronn hooking up with a Sand Snake.

[trd1610]

Originally Posted by Drwbllz

I thought they weren't, though. Isn't that why Sam had to explain the change when he got to the Citadel?

I suppose. But Cersei and the KL crew knew Jon was the new commander. Oldtown thought it was still Mormont right? But Oldtown is super far away from the wall, even more so the KL, and ravens are a very imperfect means of communication. Birds get shot down all the time, whether it's from people not wanting messages to be delivered during times of war, a random hunter looking for some dinner, a hawk or other predator takes it out, or the thing just gets lost. There's a good number of references to their reliability or lack of in the books. So it's possible one was sent to them and just never reached Oldtown.

[trd1610]

Originally Posted by lieinmygrave41

So we've got two seasons remaining. I'm guessing the plot lines will start accelerating and season 6 will see a few main characters die (Littlefinger, Cersei, Jamie, Brienne, Podrick, maybe Arya during a failed assassination), but what happens to Essos and that whole continent? The show runners spent almost 3 seasons in Mereen and now it's all supposed to be under Daario's handling? How do they resolve that plot while also showing the Targaryen invasion and subsequent White Walker war? Does Jaquen show up again? What happens to Jorah? Where is Gendry? He's the last remaining "Baratheon."



I think Dany will conquer King's Landing, learn of the White Walkers and during a battle with Winterfell, one of the dragons stops to investige Jon. Because Jon has Targaryen blood, the dragon allows Jon to climb on him, basically ending the battle and forming an alliance between the South and the North (now that Jon is King of the North). The Iron Borns will be obliterated by their internal political turmoil and betrayal, killing off Yara, Euron, and Theon. Dany and Jon marry each other, which is the end of season 6. During season 7, one of the dragons becomes an ice dragon (which the show and books has alluded to) and ends up fighting for the white walkers. This dragon ends up killing Dany or Jon. The plight of their spouse's death causes them to commit suicide. Ser Davos survives all of this and so does Tyrion and Sansa. In the end, Sansa is the queen, Tyron is hand of the Queen, and Davos is head of the Queensguard. The camera pans out of King's Landing, up and up, past the clouds and into the optical lenses of the Citadel library and back down into the large room revealed to us in Season 6. It's 20 years in the future now. Samuel Tarly is the Maester of the Citadel, teaching children of the War of the Three Kings and the Song of Fire and Ice. His son is his apprentice and Gilly leans against a small bookcase, smiling at Sam.



The last 5 minutes of the show pan to a small town north of the wall, so far north we've never been there. A hand protrudes out of the ground. He reaches for the soil and claws at it with his ruby-studded hand. It's a forgotten Night King, supposedly usurped and left to die by the formerly slaughtered Night King. /fin



The Song of Fire and Ice is perpetual. The epilogue is Bronn hooking up with a Sand Snake.

I'll offer some of my own thoughts. Which also could be very wrong lol.

I agree, many characters are about to start dying. But I think Arya, Jon, Dany, Tyrion, and Bran all survive until at least midway-end part of the final season though. Those were the five main characters for the story to center around in Martin's original 1993 outline and I don't see that changing really, they'll all make it until the very ending. Like episode 4 or 5 assuming there's 7 episodes each in season's 7 and 8. Or half seasons, whatever you want to call them. Jon won't die again, I think Dany is in play though.

As far as Essos is concerned, they're probably going to just sort of move on. It's so large and there are so many different cities and realms that even what we've seen is just a microcosm of it. I'd be okay with just washing our hands of it and not checking in on Daario again.

Gendry ain't coming back, unless he's with Hot Pie hanging out in the Riverlands and Brienne and Pod run into them in season 7. Doubtful though.

Jaquen isn't a real person, he's no one. It's a face that no one wears. The dude she thought was Jaquen killed himself after she killed Trant to prove that point. I think we're done with the faceless men though.

Jorah is the interesting question mark that I really have no answer for. Could go the way of Gendry and just disappear. Maybe he just shows up out of nowhere during the last season half a stone man after finding some cure to stop it from spreading like Dany commanded.

I don't foresee a war between Dany and the North once she conquers the south. She's already granting the iron islands their independence with some fealty, the same could happen with the north. Jon and the North also aren't trying to conquer or sit the Iron Throne, I think their attention will be devoted to the Wall coming down and the WW invasion in season 7. Depending on when Jon learns of his parentage he definitely isn't going to start fighting his auntie who's got the largest combined army the world has seen and three dragons. Jon will ride Viserion though, and Bran will warg Rhaegal.

Dany's vision in the house of the undying of the throne room destroyed and covered in snow could be some foreshadowing though. Does Cersei go full Mad King and actually "burn them all" and destroy even the Red Keep? Or does the north get overwhelmed and have to retreat south because there's not much they can do to stop the WW and the WW are what bring devastation to KL? Is it just a regular winter snow dusting in the south, or a storm brought by the WW?

I think Euron will meet Dany in an epic sea battle on her way to Westeros or i could see an alliance with Cersei being formed. It's also possible that they take some of the book plot and have him start reaving down the coast and attacking Oldtown and the Reach and not actually have a conflict with Dany until she's already taken out Cersei.

A dragon isn't going to become an ice dragon I don't think. It'd be interesting though, like if the Nights King touched it like they do to Craster's sons. If an ice dragon does appear, because you're right it has been mentioned and hinted at, especially in the books, I think it's more likely to come from the wall itself or from under Winterfell, which are the two most common references. Ultimately I don't think we will though, not on the show at least. Just seems like too much out of left field for the show IMO.

I don't think Jon or Dany commits suicide as a result of one dying, they aren't going to fall madly in love over the course of 14 episodes remaining, Jon would be much more heartbroken over say Arya dying. If they marry it will be more for duty and to unite the realm than love. I'm interested to see how Jon and Dany feel about incestual relationships. Marrying cousins and nephews and nieces isn't that strange in the realm, Tywin wed his cousin for example, so maybe they'd be cool with it. The brother sister stuff was strictly Targaryen though. If they both survive Dany will be the one who actually sits the throne. Sansa will be wardenness of the North I think in that scenario.

The Sam in Oldtown zoom out probably won't work because he's still sworn to the Nights Watch and will be returning to be the maester there with the newly reformed Watch after all the fighting has finished. But he may be recanting the War of the FIVE kings, and the WW invasion.

Bronn and Sandsnake epilogue would be hilarious.

I actually like Jason Concepsion's (guy who writes for The Ringer) idea for the epilogue which is basically everyone's wiped out and we see Nymeria leading her huge pack around the Riverlands and happen upon a wandering Ghost. /fin

Who really knows how any of this will go though. A lot of different things could go down.

[trd1610]

Actually I take that back, if Brans alive he will be the Warden of the North and Lord of Winterfell, sitting atop his Weirwood throne, not Sansa.

[lieinmygrave41]

^ Great points. Given interviews with George Martin, the showrunners, and Matin's investment in his own story, I think in the end most of the stories will be resolved but a few open ended questions will never be answered. Martin has been at work on this book series for over 20 years and he knows his legacy/characters more than anyone. I trust that whatever he revealed to D&D will be sufficient to end the series on a "bittersweet" note, as they've called it.

[Julia Roberts]

I'll take a shot at predictions.

There was a lot of speculation that in this last episode we'd see the wall and the white walkers. Maybe they just look at the wall and we get the horn signal. Maybe the wall falls. But other than Bran greenseeing, we got nothing from the wall. Sounds like a great place to open season 7. So here goes:

Season 7 focuses on two main plotlines.

Plot line 1: We have a newly united north. Focused on defeating the white walkers. First at the wall, where the north is pushed back. Then at Winterfell, where they are defeated again. Basically, we see the north continue to be pushed south toward the jaws of the Lannisters.

Plot line 2: The mother of all armies unites at Dorne and begins to push toward King's Landing. Along the way Tyrion tries to get Jaime to take out Cercei and surrender KL to Dany. In the end Jaime chooses Cercei and they go down together.

Maybe the season ends with a battered, fragment of the northern army limping into KL. Maybe Jon gets an audience with Dany.

[junior94]

well since this news came out today and nobody's mentioned it in here yet, I'll pass it along. Looks like we'll be getting the (already shortened more than usual) new season 7 next year a bit later than usual, like probably mid-May at the absolute earliest. This is because they're moving production forward a bit further than usual, because they need access to more genuinely cold, winter-y locations for the bulk of what they're doing. As D&D said themselves, "we don't have much use for very sunny environments for long anymore". So winter is literally coming.


But the question I'd wanted to ask in here anyway, going on the (wishful?) assumption that we'll get to see Rhaegar in another flashback next year, is there any particular actor that anyone is hoping will get cast for him?
I saw someone already made a meme using Heath Ledger from "A Knight's Tale", but that's probably off the table...

[sharvey]

I've seen mock ups of Chris hemsworth as a young rhaegar. He'd be my vote.

[smokew11]

yeah Jr I think it's a safe bet that Ledger is off the table

[coldengrey12]

Originally Posted by smokew11

yeah Jr I think it's a safe bet that Ledger is off the table

I mean, this show brought Jon Snow back, so obviously it's not impossible.

...

Too soon?

[junior94]

Originally Posted by smokew11

yeah Jr I think it's a safe bet that Ledger is off the table

well I just meant cause that movie was, what, like 2002? so obviously he wouldn't still look quite that way. Wait... why, have you heard something?

[smokew11]

yeah he definitely doesnt look that way anymore

[fonzz41]

Originally Posted by sharvey

I've seen mock ups of Chris hemsworth as a young rhaegar. He'd be my vote.

I don't know if this is what you're talking about or even if the artist intended for it to look like Hemsworth, but I always thought the same thing about this image from the World of Ice and Fire book. Love it.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/2/...gar_twoiaf.jpg

[ricky towel]

Watching a young Bobby B destroy his chest with the big warhammer in a flashback would be nice.


I just hope they keep it in areas of gray instead of moving towards Bobby being bad and Rhaegar being good.

[thebridge15]

p sure a lot of show watchers are under the impression that rhaegar was bad

[sharvey]

Originally Posted by fonzz41

I don't know if this is what you're talking about or even if the artist intended for it to look like Hemsworth, but I always thought the same thing about this image from the World of Ice and Fire book. Love it.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/2/...gar_twoiaf.jpg

Haha that is the photo I was thinking of. Crazy. Looks just like him!

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by junior94

well I just meant cause that movie was, what, like 2002? so obviously he wouldn't still look quite that way. Wait... why, have you heard something?

Heath Ledger died like five years ago.

[smokew11]

Originally Posted by thebridge15

p sure a lot of show watchers are under the impression that rhaegar was bad

agreed, despite Selmy's discussion with D

honestly I just can't imagine anyone knows/remembers enough about Rhaegar to have an impression, other than he was a Targ and most Targs are bad.

Same with Lyanna. Small mentions were dropped over the course of 6 seasons, but most watchers wouldn't get it. As powerful as some of Littlefingers words and "looks" were, it was still an afterthough to the much larger things happening in the episode.

[VTDMBNH]

Originally Posted by ricky towel

Watching a young Bobby B destroy his chest with the big warhammer in a flashback would be nice.


I just hope they keep it in areas of gray instead of moving towards Bobby being bad and Rhaegar being good.

Bobby B. Nice.

[MVDMB]

Originally Posted by rconverse

Heath Ledger died like five years ago.

Closer to 10 now, which is crazy