**NCAA Basketball Thread**

[sbuzzz]

Originally Posted by Rodey

Where's Bo's national championship?

That's the sole definition of a good coach?

[kydmb99]

I could be mistaken but I believe coaches generally attempt to win championships and that when comparing two coaches, the coach who has a national championship would have a pretty sizable advantage when being rated for their coaching abilities.

[Rodey]

Originally Posted by sbuzzz

That's the sole definition of a good coach?

You admitted Self is a great recruiter and a good coach. He also has a national championship to his name.

Bo is a great coach, average recruiter and has zero national championships.

What are we debating?

[YouNeverKnow25]

I agree with sbuzz that NCs are not necessarily the best measuring stick, especially when comparing a program like kansas to one like wisconsin.

there are a lot of other reasons that self is better than ryan though.

[Klize17]

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25

compete for what kind of title?

Big Ten for sure and sleeper national title pick.

[sbuzzz]

Originally Posted by Rodey

What are we debating?

You forgot what we were debating already?

Originally Posted by Rodey

You admitted Self is a great recruiter and a good coach. He also has a national championship to his name.

Bo is a great coach, average recruiter and has zero national championships.

Thanks for agreeing with me.

[kydmb99]

We're talking about the Indiana that Tom Crean coaches right?

[Klize17]

Originally Posted by kydmb99

We're talking about the Indiana that Tom Crean coaches right?

Correct his name was brought up as a weakness in my earlier post. I am optimistic its October.

[Rodey]

Originally Posted by sbuzzz

You forgot what we were debating already?



Thanks for agreeing with me.

There's more to being a coach than X's and O's (which Self is very good at doing).

[Balor3012]

Yogi Ferrell might be the "how is that guy still playing college basketball" guy this year

[sbuzzz]

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25

I agree with sbuzz that NCs are not necessarily the best measuring stick, especially when comparing a program like kansas to one like wisconsin.

there are a lot of other reasons that self is better than ryan though.

Bo won a bunch of championships and had a 91% winning % at UW-Platteville, which I don't care what level it is, is impressive.

He had two winning seasons at UWM with less talent than my rec league team at the time (this is verifiable)

And his record at UW with consistently being at the top of the nation in turnover % and fewest fouls is really impressive and easily something that can be coach measured.

I still think Self is a really good coach too, but Bo routinely makes the players he has better - not sure you can say the same about Self.

[Rodey]

Originally Posted by sbuzzz

Bo won a bunch of championships and had a 91% winning % at UW-Platteville, which I don't care what level it is, is impressive.

He had two winning seasons at UWM with less talent than my rec league team at the time (this is verifiable)

And his record at UW with consistently being at the top of the nation in turnover % and fewest fouls is really impressive and easily something that can be coach measured.

I still think Self is a really good coach too, but Bo routinely makes the players he has better - not sure you can say the same about Self.

Look at the team Self almost won his second national championship with, against a 37-2 Kentucky team, and tell me if your opinion has changed.

[Klize17]

Originally Posted by luccic12

Yogi Ferrell might be the "how is that guy still playing college basketball" guy this year

He has the potential to be an All-American this year. If he can shoot the 3pt over 40% again and get the TO/AST ratio around 3 or higher he will be in consideration.

[kydmb99]

11 straight conference championships is pretty damn impressive

[thebridge15]

Originally Posted by luccic12

Yogi Ferrell might be the "how is that guy still playing college basketball" guy this year

perry ellis gets my vote

[Klize17]

Originally Posted by kydmb99

11 straight conference championships is pretty damn impressive

Agree with this. I would have to go with Self for the national title and this.

[sbuzzz]

Originally Posted by Rodey

Look at the team Self almost won his second national championship with, against a 37-2 Kentucky team, and tell me if your opinion has changed.

So you call out the national championships and now you are trying to make a point with a team that did not win a national championship? Interesting.

Originally Posted by kydmb99

11 straight conference championships is pretty damn impressive

It certainly is. It would be even more impressive in a lot of other conferences. But still damn impressive. But I would argue that is far more related to his recruiting than his coaching. Impressive nonetheless.

[Rodey]

Originally Posted by sbuzzz

So you call out the national championships and now you are trying to make a point with a team that did not win a national championship? Interesting.

You're talking about Bo making his players better. Self certainly did that with that year's team.

[kydmb99]

Don't understand not including recruiting ability as an aspect of overall coaching ability. Seems like a cop out for when your coach isn't a great recruiter.

[sbuzzz]

Originally Posted by Rodey

You're talking about Bo making his players better. Self certainly did that with that year's team.

Ok, Self did awesome that year and outplayed their talent level. That year.

Originally Posted by kydmb99

Don't understand not including recruiting ability as an aspect of overall coaching ability. Seems like a cop out for when your coach isn't a great recruiter.

How can you not understand it?

If the same exact roster of players was coached for a year by either coach, I say Bo's team easily has the better record. That's all I'm saying.

[seekupig]

Originally Posted by sbuzzz

Ok, Self did awesome that year and outplayed their talent level. That year.

It's happened quite a bit over the years actually.

Originally Posted by sbuzzz

If the same exact roster of players was coached for a year by either coach, I say Bo's team easily has the better record. That's all I'm saying.

Now we're reaching new heights.

[Rodey]

Originally Posted by sbuzzz

Ok, Self did awesome that year and outplayed their talent level. That year.

How can you not understand it?

If the same exact roster of players was coached for a year by either coach, I say Bo's team easily has the better record. That's all I'm saying.

And if Bo coached Self's roster, I'd venture to guess he'd have a worse record than if Self did.

[sbuzzz]

Originally Posted by seekupig

Now we're reaching new heights.

Originally Posted by Rodey

And if Bo coached Self's roster, I'd venture to guess he'd have a worse record than if Self did.

No.

What I am saying is if 12 random basketball players made up a team, and if that team was coached by either Bo or Bill for a year. Bo would have a better team by year end.

[YouNeverKnow25]

I think everyone understood what you meant SBuzz. they just vehemently disagreed with you

[seekupig]

Originally Posted by sbuzzz

What I am saying is if 12 random basketball players made up a team, and if that team was coached by either Bo or Bill for a year. Bo would have a better team by year end.

and there is nothing out there to support that is all I'm saying. You're basically using Bo's inability to recruit top end talent as a mark against Bill Self.

I gave you the information earlier on what Self did at Oral Roberts and Tulsa. It's not like he's Roy Williams and has only know Mc'D's AA's his entire career.

[sbuzzz]

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25

I think everyone understood what you meant SBuzz. they just vehemently disagreed with you

Wow. Then they are really wrong.

[seekupig]

Originally Posted by sbuzzz

Wow. Then they are really wrong.

I chuckled.

[Rodey]

Coach K sucks too. Just walked into Duke with McDonald's AA's waiting for him. Bo's definitely better than him.

[YouNeverKnow25]

wish dustin didn't feel the need to lash out like this. we're trying to talk self and ryan and he has to get in his little dagger on roy, who never hurt anyone and just dadgum cares, is all

[kydmb99]

I'm going to go ahead and say Cal wasn't #2 because of his X's and O's