Belly Belly - Page 3 - Antsmarching.org Forums - Dave Matthews Band Discussion
Old 07-14-2012, 10:35 PM   #61
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Re: Belly Belly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Othello-5 View Post
People complain like they want this album to be on par with the Big 3, but I don't think many on here could actually handle that (they love those albums to much for anything to ever come close, even if it objectively did). I would be perfectly happy if this turned out to be true, and from what I've heard so far, its shaping up to be that way.

There's no recreating the UTTAD, Crash, and BTCS. That simply can't happen. I get it. BUT isn't it evident when they put out something that's got no freaking heart? Can't we as educated dmb listeners tell when Dave's put thought into writing and when he's scribbling down the first thing that comes to mind???
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  • Old 07-14-2012, 10:36 PM   #62
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Caseycoton View Post
    Yeah I'm digging the music. It's lyrically where they're falling short for me.
    Has anyone transcribed the lyrics yet? I mean, the lyrics to popular staples like Too Much and Tripping Billies aren't exactly lyrical masterpieces. They're kind of ridiculous if you read the lyrics. I've been a fan of these guys since 1993 and I've never thought that lyrics were essential to their success. It's really the uniqueness of music combined with catchy lyrics that you can sing along too.
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    Old 07-14-2012, 10:38 PM   #63
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thebridge15 View Post
    I agree that I've been negative about this new album. It's my natural personality, but if it's bothered people (and I understand that it could), I apologize. I will try consider these songs more fully before posting opinions.

    But I do think it's unfair to attack people who post negative opinions. I get calling out trolls who just say "song blows" or something, but people who have honestly considered a song and don't like it still get destroyed by a lot of people on this site.

    I just think either way, love or hate, should be free to express themselves. Yes, I have been negative, but I have never criticized anyone excessively who enjoys any new song.
    Yes and I agree if you dont like a song you just dont like the song but theres still a difference. You havent even had a chance to even hear all the studio versions of each song and the album straight through before making these critical judgements that I have seen so you really arent giving anything a chance to grow on you. I have a feeling people will write off this album right from the beginning which you seem to already be thinking in your head and that you will eventually see the light and realize its actually way better than you originally thought.

    This happened to me about 4 years ago with this site that after I obsessively searched and read these boards I found myself beginning to hate alot of dmb music that I used to enjoy due to overall opinions of these boards luckily I caught myself at a concert enjoying Bayou that people would bitch on end about at this site and I realized it was affecting my overall opinion. I fixed it and started not liking songs for the right reasons and not because the concensus on this site was to hate certain songs. Made me appreciate some of the music they are still capable of making that alot of people dont think is possible anymore even though they seem to be on the verge of being back to high quality level with their current lineup. Just give it a chance to grow on you and if it never does then ok it just wont happen but if you cant sit their and hear some of this stuff they're creating right now and not realize its some realllllllllllllllll music coming out then I cant even begin to feel bad for the people that feel that way. Not every song needs to be a complex Two Step/Last Stop song. Songs can be simple and beautiful at the same time ala LLD and Ditch which is exactly what Mercy is, simple but beautiful.

    The lyric thing is a whole new discussion. If the lyrics are great then it can make song go from good to exacly that, great and we can then praise Dave for his lyrical genius. But if a song is meant to just be an upbeat fun dancing mood type song then the lyrics dont need to be great, in fact its hard to make a song like that, that has unbelievable lyrics, every song the band has that fits that mold has unbelievable music and standard "cliche/cheesy" or generic lyricsm but its ok. The song has great music and makes an enjoyable thing to listen to or hear and just makes you feel good. Thats what Too Much, Rapunzel, Billies and WWYS are. Lyrics that people dont pay attention to because the song just kicks ass. Well now the band comes out with 1 or 2 bad albums and now people cant relearn to enjoy the good music that is given to them.


    This site really makes me wonder why some of you are fans. Frustrating. Sorry for ranting .


    (I used that symbol because I never did before, and always wanted to, and never had a good reason to use it, so I used it now.)


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    Last edited by bibby1044; 07-14-2012 at 10:40 PM.
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    Old 07-14-2012, 10:47 PM   #64
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thebridge15 View Post
    Don't insult Everyday like that.
    Really? I can see liking some of the songs live, but you really think its a better album than Big Whiskey? Only way I can see this is if Everyday has some sort of sentimental value or brought you into the band. But Everyday is pretty much a Dave solo album with the rest of the band filling in as studio musicians IMO.
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    Old 07-14-2012, 10:47 PM   #65
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bibby1044 View Post
    Yes and I agree if you dont like a song you just dont like the song but theres still a difference. You havent even had a chance to even hear all the studio versions of each song and the album straight through before making these critical judgements that I have seen so you really arent giving anything a chance to grow on you. I have a feeling people will write off this album right from the beginning which you seem to already be thinking in your head and that you will eventually see the light and realize its actually way better than you originally thought.

    This happened to me about 4 years ago with this site that after I obsessively searched and read these boards I found myself beginning to hate alot of dmb music that I used to enjoy due to overall opinions of these boards luckily I caught myself at a concert enjoying Bayou that people would bitch on end about at this site and I realized it was affecting my overall opinion. I fixed it and started not liking songs for the right reasons and not because the concensus on this site was to hate certain songs. Made me appreciate some of the music they are still capable of making that alot of people dont think is possible anymore even though they seem to be on the verge of being back to high quality level with their current lineup. Just give it a chance to grow on you and if it never does then ok it just wont happen but if you cant sit their and hear some of this stuff they're creating right now and not realize its some realllllllllllllllll music coming out then I cant even begin to feel bad for the people that feel that way. Not every song needs to be a complex Two Step/Last Stop song. Songs can be simple and beautiful at the same time ala LLD and Ditch which is exactly what Mercy is, simple but beautiful.

    The lyric thing is a whole new discussion. If the lyrics are great then it can make song go from good to exacly that, great and we can then praise Dave for his lyrical genius. But if a song is meant to just be an upbeat fun dancing mood type song then the lyrics dont need to be great, in fact its hard to make a song like that, that has unbelievable lyrics, every song the band has that fits that mold has unbelievable music and standard "cliche/cheesy" or generic lyricsm but its ok. The song has great music and makes an enjoyable thing to listen to or hear and just makes you feel good. Thats what Too Much, Rapunzel, Billies and WWYS are. Lyrics that people dont pay attention to because the song just kicks ass. Well now the band comes out with 1 or 2 bad albums and now people cant relearn to enjoy the good music that is given to them.


    This site really makes me wonder why some of you are fans. Frustrating. Sorry for ranting .


    (I used that symbol because I never did before, and always wanted to, and never had a good reason to use it, so I used it now.)


    (Its called the Golden Goat....its a deer to me.)


    (PA all the way.)
    Ok. I'm fine with your accusation of my opinions. I really do get it. I understand that it's a little ridiculous to criticize songs for which I've only heard a few live recordings (If Only). (Though I've only heard one recording of Belly Belly Nice, and really like it a lot).

    I think it's fair that I keep my criticism of songs to the studio cuts, and wait on total judgement for a year or so. In that mind, I think it's fair for me to say that I really don't like Gaucho, a song that the studio cut has been released for and I've seen live in person.

    I do fully agree with you on lyrics. I'm 1000% in the camp that says that lyrics are only there to make a good song to a great song, and they can occasionally (but VERY rarely) turn a good song into an ok or bad song. For me, Gaucho's chorus affects it as a song overall, because it's repeated so often, and, with the kids in the studio version, is a big part of the structure of the song.

    But I do think that a lot of the time, heavy analysis of lyrics hurts songs where it shouldn't. Lyric analysis should be a bonus for songs. Songs like Song That Jane Likes and Raven have great, great music, and it makes them even better when you look at the lyrics and see that they're complex and creative.

    I hope I don't come off like a super asshole on these boards, seriously. I just get frustrated sometimes with the band I love, a feeling I'm sure many feel at some point.
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    Last edited by thebridge15; 07-14-2012 at 10:50 PM.
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    Old 07-14-2012, 10:49 PM   #66
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trippingant View Post
    Really? I can see liking some of the songs live, but you really think its a better album than Big Whiskey? Only way I can see this is if Everyday has some sort of sentimental value or brought you into the band. But Everyday is pretty much a Dave solo album with the rest of the band filling in as studio musicians IMO.
    I don't hate Big Whiskey AT ALL, but yea, I prefer Everyday. I think, honestly, a lot of that has to do with the fact that I actually like Dave solo a lot, absolutely love Some Devil, and Everyday is basically Some Devil Electric for me, but with the original guys as backup instead of the Friends.
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    Quote:
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    bills are paying the jags o-line coach 4 million this year.

    that will be a tough one for the aliens to figure out.
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    Old 07-14-2012, 10:49 PM   #67
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bibby1044 View Post
    Yes and I agree if you dont like a song you just dont like the song but theres still a difference. You havent even had a chance to even hear all the studio versions of each song and the album straight through before making these critical judgements that I have seen so you really arent giving anything a chance to grow on you. I have a feeling people will write off this album right from the beginning which you seem to already be thinking in your head and that you will eventually see the light and realize its actually way better than you originally thought.

    This happened to me about 4 years ago with this site that after I obsessively searched and read these boards I found myself beginning to hate alot of dmb music that I used to enjoy due to overall opinions of these boards luckily I caught myself at a concert enjoying Bayou that people would bitch on end about at this site and I realized it was affecting my overall opinion. I fixed it and started not liking songs for the right reasons and not because the concensus on this site was to hate certain songs. Made me appreciate some of the music they are still capable of making that alot of people dont think is possible anymore even though they seem to be on the verge of being back to high quality level with their current lineup. Just give it a chance to grow on you and if it never does then ok it just wont happen but if you cant sit their and hear some of this stuff they're creating right now and not realize its some realllllllllllllllll music coming out then I cant even begin to feel bad for the people that feel that way. Not every song needs to be a complex Two Step/Last Stop song. Songs can be simple and beautiful at the same time ala LLD and Ditch which is exactly what Mercy is, simple but beautiful.

    The lyric thing is a whole new discussion. If the lyrics are great then it can make song go from good to exacly that, great and we can then praise Dave for his lyrical genius. But if a song is meant to just be an upbeat fun dancing mood type song then the lyrics dont need to be great, in fact its hard to make a song like that, that has unbelievable lyrics, every song the band has that fits that mold has unbelievable music and standard "cliche/cheesy" or generic lyricsm but its ok. The song has great music and makes an enjoyable thing to listen to or hear and just makes you feel good. Thats what Too Much, Rapunzel, Billies and WWYS are. Lyrics that people dont pay attention to because the song just kicks ass. Well now the band comes out with 1 or 2 bad albums and now people cant relearn to enjoy the good music that is given to them.


    This site really makes me wonder why some of you are fans. Frustrating. Sorry for ranting .


    (I used that symbol because I never did before, and always wanted to, and never had a good reason to use it, so I used it now.)


    (Its called the Golden Goat....its a deer to me.)


    (PA all the way.)
    I agree wholeheartedly with this post, because I went through exactly the same thing you described (the falling in line with the site opinion, then realizing that it was affecting your enjoyment of the band).

    People have been writing off songs after one or two plays that they saw on a grainy youtube video with poor sound...that is ridiculous on every level.
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    Old 07-14-2012, 10:51 PM   #68
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crushme5 View Post
    Has anyone transcribed the lyrics yet? I mean, the lyrics to popular staples like Too Much and Tripping Billies aren't exactly lyrical masterpieces. They're kind of ridiculous if you read the lyrics. I've been a fan of these guys since 1993 and I've never thought that lyrics were essential to their success. It's really the uniqueness of music combined with catchy lyrics that you can sing along too.
    What the hell?! Seriously? Do me a favor and read the lyrics again and actually THINK about the message. Some songs may be about frivolous bullshit like tripping on mushrooms at the beach / carpe diem and some songs are about greed and consumption, but there's THOUGHT put into them. And then there's WAYG, Mercy, FTWII, etc. where I think Dave might have written them in one pass while taking a morning shit.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bibby1044 View Post
    Yes and I agree if you dont like a song you just dont like the song but theres still a difference. You havent even had a chance to even hear all the studio versions of each song and the album straight through before making these critical judgements that I have seen so you really arent giving anything a chance to grow on you. I have a feeling people will write off this album right from the beginning which you seem to already be thinking in your head and that you will eventually see the light and realize its actually way better than you originally thought.

    This happened to me about 4 years ago with this site that after I obsessively searched and read these boards I found myself beginning to hate alot of dmb music that I used to enjoy due to overall opinions of these boards luckily I caught myself at a concert enjoying Bayou that people would bitch on end about at this site and I realized it was affecting my overall opinion. I fixed it and started not liking songs for the right reasons and not because the concensus on this site was to hate certain songs. Made me appreciate some of the music they are still capable of making that alot of people dont think is possible anymore even though they seem to be on the verge of being back to high quality level with their current lineup. Just give it a chance to grow on you and if it never does then ok it just wont happen but if you cant sit their and hear some of this stuff they're creating right now and not realize its some realllllllllllllllll music coming out then I cant even begin to feel bad for the people that feel that way. Not every song needs to be a complex Two Step/Last Stop song. Songs can be simple and beautiful at the same time ala LLD and Ditch which is exactly what Mercy is, simple but beautiful.

    The lyric thing is a whole new discussion. If the lyrics are great then it can make song go from good to exacly that, great and we can then praise Dave for his lyrical genius. But if a song is meant to just be an upbeat fun dancing mood type song then the lyrics dont need to be great, in fact its hard to make a song like that, that has unbelievable lyrics, every song the band has that fits that mold has unbelievable music and standard "cliche/cheesy" or generic lyricsm but its ok. The song has great music and makes an enjoyable thing to listen to or hear and just makes you feel good. Thats what Too Much, Rapunzel, Billies and WWYS are. Lyrics that people dont pay attention to because the song just kicks ass. Well now the band comes out with 1 or 2 bad albums and now people cant relearn to enjoy the good music that is given to them.


    This site really makes me wonder why some of you are fans. Frustrating. Sorry for ranting .


    (I used that symbol because I never did before, and always wanted to, and never had a good reason to use it, so I used it now.)


    (Its called the Golden Goat....its a deer to me.)


    (PA all the way.)

    I dont know what you think you're going to hear on a studio cut that's not EXACTLY what they play on stage -- just not mastered in a studio. Any examples?
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    Old 07-14-2012, 10:51 PM   #69
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crushme5 View Post
    Has anyone transcribed the lyrics yet? I mean, the lyrics to popular staples like Too Much and Tripping Billies aren't exactly lyrical masterpieces. They're kind of ridiculous if you read the lyrics. I've been a fan of these guys since 1993 and I've never thought that lyrics were essential to their success. It's really the uniqueness of music combined with catchy lyrics that you can sing along too.
    Also WWYS, which is the closest equivalent to this song I can think of with this band.

    "I was there when the bear ate his head and thought it was a candy"

    Not exactly a masterpiece, yet people don't seem to write that song off.
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    Old 07-14-2012, 10:55 PM   #70
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Caseycoton View Post
    What the hell?! Seriously? Do me a favor and read the lyrics again and actually THINK about the message. Some songs may be about frivolous bullshit like tripping on mushrooms at the beach / carpe diem and some songs are about greed and consumption, but there's THOUGHT put into them. And then there's WAYG, Mercy, FTWII, etc. where I think Dave might have written them in one pass while taking a morning shit.
    I'm fairly certain that Dave was high writing much of the frivolous stuff (and some of the serious stuff too), so I don't think that much thought went into those songs either. You are just more comfortable with them because they have been around longer. Give the new songs time.
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    Old 07-14-2012, 10:55 PM   #71
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Othello-5 View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly with this post, because I went through exactly the same thing you described (the falling in line with the site opinion, then realizing that it was affecting your enjoyment of the band).

    People have been writing off songs after one or two plays that they saw on a grainy youtube video with poor sound...that is ridiculous on every level.
    I forgot to comment on the site affecting enjoyment:

    I was at SPAC N2. I'll admit that for the first half, I was definitely concerned with what Ants was saying and how people would view the show.

    I was with my dad, a big DMB fan who took me to my first couple shows. Once PNP started, I distinctly remember thinking "fuck, I really like this band, I don't really care what's played when I'm here."

    Fully enjoyed the rest of the show. I've never had even close to an ok time at a show. Because when you're there, you realize why you love the band so much. It's easy for people (and me) to armchair coach the band's setlist picking, but in reality, when you attend the show, a great setlist is a bonus for a show you'd enjoy no matter what.
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    Old 07-14-2012, 10:59 PM   #72
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Othello-5 View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly with this post, because I went through exactly the same thing you described (the falling in line with the site opinion, then realizing that it was affecting your enjoyment of the band).

    People have been writing off songs after one or two plays that they saw on a grainy youtube video with poor sound...that is ridiculous on every level.

    I guess for me the song as an idea, as a work of art is apparent after I hear it played the first time. I may listen to it again and change my opinion about it, but after that it's just different VERSIONS of the same song. Jimi thing Cow Palace 96 is one of my favorite versions of that song. AATW Lakewood 8/20/98 is one of my favorite versions of that song - i just think they NAILED it. But I'm not listening to a studio cut and thinking - oh wow it's a completely different song then what i heard in concert.

    I get it. Two step has changed over it's life span from a mildly dark happy song to incredibly loud and dramatic spectacle. But it's still technically the same song for me as whats on Crash. So Damn Lucky off Some Devil compared to DMB's version is a DRASTICALLY different VERSION but it's the same song.
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    Old 07-14-2012, 11:01 PM   #73
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Caseycoton View Post
    There's no recreating the UTTAD, Crash, and BTCS. That simply can't happen. I get it. BUT isn't it evident when they put out something that's got no freaking heart? Can't we as educated dmb listeners tell when Dave's put thought into writing and when he's scribbling down the first thing that comes to mind???
    You might not think so, but I think this albums got heart, and quite a bit of it. BW does too, on some songs. If there is an album that has no heart, its ED (not ragging on the songs off that album, especially seen where they went live, but the album itself...)
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    Old 07-14-2012, 11:04 PM   #74
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Caseycoton View Post
    I guess for me the song as an idea, as a work of art is apparent after I hear it played the first time. I may listen to it again and change my opinion about it, but after that it's just different VERSIONS of the same song. Jimi thing Cow Palace 96 is one of my favorite versions of that song. AATW Lakewood 8/20/98 is one of my favorite versions of that song - i just think they NAILED it. But I'm not listening to a studio cut and thinking - oh wow it's a completely different song then what i heard in concert.

    I get it. Two step has changed over it's life span from a mildly dark happy song to incredibly loud and dramatic spectacle. But it's still technically the same song for me as whats on Crash. So Damn Lucky off Some Devil compared to DMB's version is a DRASTICALLY different VERSION but it's the same song.
    I think this as well, but I'm also aware that my original opinion of a song may not have given it proper consideration.

    I'll also admit that lyrics have very little bearing on my opinion of a song, what matters most to me is music and vocal melody. This might also be affecting our differing opinions.
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    Old 07-14-2012, 11:11 PM   #75
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Othello-5 View Post
    I'm fairly certain that Dave was high writing much of the frivolous stuff (and some of the serious stuff too), so I don't think that much thought went into those songs either. You are just more comfortable with them because they have been around longer. Give the new songs time.

    Gosh. Okay let me try again. When someone writes an obscure song about a little frog that was trying to climb up the drain pipe but is eaten by a giant purple teradactyle (sp? fuck it) I'm going to give them more credit than the guy that writes Baby Baby Baby, what will become of me? I'm trying to get out of here because there's a lot of fear, my dear so Help me what will become of us, can we turn this around."

    You feel me? The latter's got more character. It's unique. There's a little more thought, time, energy, care put into creating something. And I really believe that Trippin and most of the songs written early on WERE scrutinized and cared about a little more because Dave hadn't made a name for himself. He cared about making an impression on people. So he put in the work. At some point <cough, the day he set foot in Glen Ballard's studio cough> Dave turn back the dial on the amount of work he was willing to put into writing his lyrics...... Now granted he's written some intriguing stuff since then, but it seems that he's turning out progressively more tired lyrics as the years have gone by.
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    Old 07-14-2012, 11:12 PM   #76
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Shit, I meant the former/the first example.
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    Old 07-14-2012, 11:16 PM   #77
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Othello-5 View Post
    I think this as well, but I'm also aware that my original opinion of a song may not have given it proper consideration.

    I'll also admit that lyrics have very little bearing on my opinion of a song, what matters most to me is music and vocal melody. This might also be affecting our differing opinions.

    Yeah it just might come down to what you're into I guess. I weight the lyrics at the top because I want a creative message. Something to believe in. And if it happens to be an interesting and unique riff and time sig, that's just a bonus. Spaceman is an example of a song that really knocked me out when I heard it - but it's not all there lyrically. I think its just aesthetically beautiful.
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    Old 07-14-2012, 11:47 PM   #78
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Yuuup, definitely a fan of this song. It's very playful, funky as shit, Boyd/ the horns are rocking it, love the hook in the chorus. And to be honest, the lyrics feel pretty old school DMB to me.
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    Old 07-14-2012, 11:48 PM   #79
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TrippinNancies1 View Post
    Yuuup, definitely a fan of this song. It's very playful, funky as shit, Boyd/ the horns are rocking it, love the hook in the chorus. And to be honest, the lyrics feel pretty old school DMB to me.
    I'm a fan of this post.
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    Old 07-15-2012, 12:52 AM   #80
    DMBartenderWI
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kanedmb View Post
    Really don't like the chorus, or much of the rest of the song. The lyrics are so bad it's actually sad to think Dave could be okay releasing them on an album by DMB.
    Oh Jesus Christ.

    The lyrics are not bad. At all. Read the lyrics to half the songs on UTTAD and Crash and then compare them to these lyrics.
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    Old 07-15-2012, 05:41 AM   #81
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Why are people clinging to comparisons so much? When can we just sit back, like we did with the first couple of albums - and listen with open ears and open minds.

    Regardless of what you think, and I will never be one to tell your opinion is wrong, these songs have the trademark depth that Lillywhite is able to get out the band. To compare these songs to ANYTHING on BWGK, Stand Up or Everyday is ridiculous, and I love BWGK.

    I'll work backwards.

    With BWGK, you have a well written album for the state in which the band was in. Good polished ideas, pen to paper lyrics and an overall successful album. Where do these songs of AFTW and BWGK differ? Cavallo saw the band in a different light than what Lillywhite can see; he saw big instruments, big sounds and big opportunities for unity. Cavallo didn't really gave the songs room to grow - because he put in such a syncopated ideology with the band. Almost all of the songs are powerful, punch you in the face - just like Dave Matthews had said; but this is a far different kind of powerful than what we are getting now. In BWGK, each member of the band played almost the same notes at the same time. It added a decibel depth, and sounded very cool at times - but it wasn't the type of depth these 2012 songs have and songs of the past that Lillywhite has polished.

    Even with crappy phone recordings (and this sentiment has been backed up by the two amazing studio cuts); there is an absurd amount going on with each song. Even in the newest, Belly Belly Nice, there is something coming from all directions during the WHOLE song. I don't think, in any of the new songs, there is even 20 seconds where more than 3 members of the band are playing the same chords and/or notes. That is what makes Lillywhite produced DMB music special to me; and this is what I am hearing from the band again. No more, BIG BAND SYNCOPATION; it's each member sticking out, because of their individual talents adding to the big picture of the band.

    Time change did not exist in Stand Up. I've always been a huge advocate of what Stand Up could have been with good production and some leadership (members of the band where unbelievably lazy at this stage, flat out lazy). I have always thought the ideas of these songs where overall better than the ideas of Everyday; and still believe this to be true.

    I.E: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGz5LrGFsUw

    With Everybody Wake Up in 2012; they finally expanded on the "good idea". Instead of keeping the same one chord strum through the entire song, Dave developed a complete riff; that adds far more to the song, and changes the timing of the verses. Instead of keeping the same snare riding rhythm throughout the ENTIRE song, Carter steps up with fills and far more rhythm in the verses. Not to mention the time change in the new jam. The point is, with proper direction and trust in themselves as musicians - using what made them successful, the band should have never put out "bad" music. Unfortunately, there is a trail of bad music; mainly guided by bad mistakes.

    These songs, including Belly Belly Nice; are a look back at what made this band initially successful. It isn't a comparison by any stretch. I fell in love with DMB because of their trust in themselves as musicians, their ability to feature time multiple time changes in their songs and their individual parts adding to the collective unity of the band. Something they have failed to accomplish with the last three albums (sans BS).

    It's hard to argue that these new songs to bring all of that back to the table.
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    Old 07-15-2012, 06:42 AM   #82
    mattyszow
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PantalaNagaMan View Post
    Why are people clinging to comparisons so much? When can we just sit back, like we did with the first couple of albums - and listen with open ears and open minds.

    Regardless of what you think, and I will never be one to tell your opinion is wrong, these songs have the trademark depth that Lillywhite is able to get out the band. To compare these songs to ANYTHING on BWGK, Stand Up or Everyday is ridiculous, and I love BWGK.

    I'll work backwards.

    With BWGK, you have a well written album for the state in which the band was in. Good polished ideas, pen to paper lyrics and an overall successful album. Where do these songs of AFTW and BWGK differ? Cavallo saw the band in a different light than what Lillywhite can see; he saw big instruments, big sounds and big opportunities for unity. Cavallo didn't really gave the songs room to grow - because he put in such a syncopated ideology with the band. Almost all of the songs are powerful, punch you in the face - just like Dave Matthews had said; but this is a far different kind of powerful than what we are getting now. In BWGK, each member of the band played almost the same notes at the same time. It added a decibel depth, and sounded very cool at times - but it wasn't the type of depth these 2012 songs have and songs of the past that Lillywhite has polished.

    Even with crappy phone recordings (and this sentiment has been backed up by the two amazing studio cuts); there is an absurd amount going on with each song. Even in the newest, Belly Belly Nice, there is something coming from all directions during the WHOLE song. I don't think, in any of the new songs, there is even 20 seconds where more than 3 members of the band are playing the same chords and/or notes. That is what makes Lillywhite produced DMB music special to me; and this is what I am hearing from the band again. No more, BIG BAND SYNCOPATION; it's each member sticking out, because of their individual talents adding to the big picture of the band.

    Time change did not exist in Stand Up. I've always been a huge advocate of what Stand Up could have been with good production and some leadership (members of the band where unbelievably lazy at this stage, flat out lazy). I have always thought the ideas of these songs where overall better than the ideas of Everyday; and still believe this to be true.

    I.E: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGz5LrGFsUw

    With Everybody Wake Up in 2012; they finally expanded on the "good idea". Instead of keeping the same one chord strum through the entire song, Dave developed a complete riff; that adds far more to the song, and changes the timing of the verses. Instead of keeping the same snare riding rhythm throughout the ENTIRE song, Carter steps up with fills and far more rhythm in the verses. Not to mention the time change in the new jam. The point is, with proper direction and trust in themselves as musicians - using what made them successful, the band should have never put out "bad" music. Unfortunately, there is a trail of bad music; mainly guided by bad mistakes.

    These songs, including Belly Belly Nice; are a look back at what made this band initially successful. It isn't a comparison by any stretch. I fell in love with DMB because of their trust in themselves as musicians, their ability to feature time multiple time changes in their songs and their individual parts adding to the collective unity of the band. Something they have failed to accomplish with the last three albums (sans BS).

    It's hard to argue that these new songs to bring all of that back to the table.
    thank you.
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    Old 07-15-2012, 06:55 AM   #83
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PantalaNagaMan View Post
    Why are people clinging to comparisons so much? When can we just sit back, like we did with the first couple of albums - and listen with open ears and open minds.

    Regardless of what you think, and I will never be one to tell your opinion is wrong, these songs have the trademark depth that Lillywhite is able to get out the band. To compare these songs to ANYTHING on BWGK, Stand Up or Everyday is ridiculous, and I love BWGK.

    I'll work backwards.

    With BWGK, you have a well written album for the state in which the band was in. Good polished ideas, pen to paper lyrics and an overall successful album. Where do these songs of AFTW and BWGK differ? Cavallo saw the band in a different light than what Lillywhite can see; he saw big instruments, big sounds and big opportunities for unity. Cavallo didn't really gave the songs room to grow - because he put in such a syncopated ideology with the band. Almost all of the songs are powerful, punch you in the face - just like Dave Matthews had said; but this is a far different kind of powerful than what we are getting now. In BWGK, each member of the band played almost the same notes at the same time. It added a decibel depth, and sounded very cool at times - but it wasn't the type of depth these 2012 songs have and songs of the past that Lillywhite has polished.

    Even with crappy phone recordings (and this sentiment has been backed up by the two amazing studio cuts); there is an absurd amount going on with each song. Even in the newest, Belly Belly Nice, there is something coming from all directions during the WHOLE song. I don't think, in any of the new songs, there is even 20 seconds where more than 3 members of the band are playing the same chords and/or notes. That is what makes Lillywhite produced DMB music special to me; and this is what I am hearing from the band again. No more, BIG BAND SYNCOPATION; it's each member sticking out, because of their individual talents adding to the big picture of the band.

    Time change did not exist in Stand Up. I've always been a huge advocate of what Stand Up could have been with good production and some leadership (members of the band where unbelievably lazy at this stage, flat out lazy). I have always thought the ideas of these songs where overall better than the ideas of Everyday; and still believe this to be true.

    I.E: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGz5LrGFsUw

    With Everybody Wake Up in 2012; they finally expanded on the "good idea". Instead of keeping the same one chord strum through the entire song, Dave developed a complete riff; that adds far more to the song, and changes the timing of the verses. Instead of keeping the same snare riding rhythm throughout the ENTIRE song, Carter steps up with fills and far more rhythm in the verses. Not to mention the time change in the new jam. The point is, with proper direction and trust in themselves as musicians - using what made them successful, the band should have never put out "bad" music. Unfortunately, there is a trail of bad music; mainly guided by bad mistakes.

    These songs, including Belly Belly Nice; are a look back at what made this band initially successful. It isn't a comparison by any stretch. I fell in love with DMB because of their trust in themselves as musicians, their ability to feature time multiple time changes in their songs and their individual parts adding to the collective unity of the band. Something they have failed to accomplish with the last three albums (sans BS).

    It's hard to argue that these new songs to bring all of that back to the table.
    excellent post, thank you
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    Old 07-15-2012, 07:31 AM   #84
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thebridge15 View Post
    We have five out of eleven songs. I doubt that the studio versions are going to be that drastically different for the three we haven't heard studio.
    Terribly false comment here. Most DMB songs sound vastly different in the studio. People criticizing this album already really make me sick. If you consider yourselves fans I feel sorry for you.
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    Old 07-15-2012, 07:33 AM   #85
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Othello-5 View Post
    Also WWYS, which is the closest equivalent to this song I can think of with this band.

    "I was there when the bear ate his head and thought it was a candy"

    Not exactly a masterpiece, yet people don't seem to write that song off.


    Some songs are meant to be ... fun or cheesy or whatever. Belly, belly is NOT meant to be LIOG or Cry Freedom. The music sounds awesome from the videos so far ... easily my favorite song off the album. Really captures the "old style DMB" - isnt that what everyone wants?????

    Even look at some Bob Dylan songs like "I shall be free", "country pie", "motopsycho nitemare" - they are fun songs, goofy even. And Dylan has had college course studying his lyrics. Try and calm down on the lyrics and enjoy the music because IMO - it sounds pretty great.
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    Old 07-15-2012, 07:40 AM   #86
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    Re: Belly Belly

    1) We knew this song would be the new album's Shake Me, and I think this one is hands down gonna be better. The chorus is great and the verse is similar.

    2) While the lyrics aren't fantastic, that's normal. Lyrics for DMB songs like this are never that great (Rapunzel, Shake Me, Too Much, etc.). They are just good, fun, funky tunes. I think that we can hold Dave a little accountable for how cheesy Mercy is and how lame the chorus lyrics are for Gaucho, but for this one, for the kind of song that it is, we shouldn't expect much.
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    Old 07-15-2012, 07:56 AM   #87
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bibby1044 View Post
    You havent even had a chance to even hear all the studio versions of each song and the album straight through before making these critical judgements that I have seen so you really arent giving anything a chance to grow on you.
    What if someone thinks you shouldn't have to let a song grow on you before you like it? What if someone actually believes that a good song is something that pulls you right in and that you don't have to ponder its greatness?
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    Old 07-15-2012, 08:02 AM   #88
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Freakin stupid edit time limit:

    Anyway, I like the song, and finally, a new song has room in it for a kickass Boyd jam.
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    Old 07-15-2012, 08:03 AM   #89
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    Re: Belly Belly

    If you could decide how good the album is without listening to studio cuts, Busted Stuff would be better than the LWS. When you get to listen to the studio cuts, you find out that production plays a huge role on how good an album is.
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    Old 07-15-2012, 08:16 AM   #90
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    Re: Belly Belly

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vklugf View Post
    If you could decide how good the album is without listening to studio cuts, Busted Stuff would be better than the LWS. When you get to listen to the studio cuts, you find out that production plays a huge role on how good an album is.
    While that is true, it has absolutely nothing to do with how good a song is, and whether or not it pulls you in and makes you want to listen more.
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