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Old 07-14-2015, 09:13 AM   #151
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Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

Quote:
Originally Posted by #27#34#36#40#41 View Post
broken things is the best song since 2001 ...give it a reminder listen
Really? DMB has put out a lot of quality music since '01. Broken Things is good, it's not great, IMO. And like LastPig said, it's a dud live, sounds completely hollow.
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  • Old 07-14-2015, 11:46 AM   #152
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    I think Broken Things is the best song Dave has written since the You Never Know (I exclude the '04 songs because they didn't have permanent lyrics, but otherwise they are better too). Lyrically impressive, musically great... just an all-around great song IMO.

    On the topic of this album, however, yes, in the beginning it did receive praise just because Lillywhite was the producer. Its not a great album.

    Broken Things (best song)
    BBN (doesn't translate live at all, just a new Shake Me)
    Mercy (boring)
    Gaucho (not a good song)
    Sweet (boring)
    The Riff (I like this one, wish they'd play it more than some of the others)
    Belly Full (its ok, just kinda there)
    If Only (boring)
    Rooftop (Dave's new Seven, and it isn't good)
    Snow Outside (great song, great studio track, doesn't translate live)
    Drunken Soldier (eh, it was hyped and it fell flat -- both studio and live)
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    Old 07-14-2015, 12:31 PM   #153
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    The Riff is good on the album. Have no interest in seeing it live again.
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    Old 07-14-2015, 07:03 PM   #154
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    I popped this in and it's still great, considering Where DMB is. Great musically, but lyrically, a mixed bag. I'm constantly amazed at how some songs get ditched, and others get lots of play. Broken Things is just fantastic and how it's dropped out of the live set amazes me.
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    Old 07-14-2015, 08:23 PM   #155
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Broken Things is so good.
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    Old 07-14-2015, 09:36 PM   #156
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    The last minute and a half of Mercy is proof of why Steve Lillywhite is the only person that should produce this band.

    Say whatever you want about the lyrics of that song, but that instrumental outro on the studio version is perfection. The delicate percussion from Carter, Tim's perfect swells and fills, just vintage DMB.
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    Old 07-15-2015, 04:32 AM   #157
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlexK79 View Post
    The last minute and a half of Mercy is proof of why Steve Lillywhite is the only person that should produce this band.

    Say whatever you want about the lyrics of that song, but that instrumental outro on the studio version is perfection. The delicate percussion from Carter, Tim's perfect swells and fills, just vintage DMB.
    If anyone complains about the songwriting or songs themselves, then I get it. If one is complaining about the production, then I question their judgement. It may not be Big 3 quality, but that has nothing to do with Lillywhite. It's still their best album since tLWS
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    Old 07-15-2015, 06:41 AM   #158
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RobbtheRevelatr View Post
    If anyone complains about the songwriting or songs themselves, then I get it. If one is complaining about the production, then I question their judgement. It may not be Big 3 quality, but that has nothing to do with Lillywhite. It's still their best album since tLWS


    Sweet (studio) is Hello Again (studio) bad.

    IMO, Lillywhite dropped the ball big time on AFTW.
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    Old 07-15-2015, 03:02 PM   #159
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    AFTW is a GREAT studio album. I dont want to hear half the songs live though. Which is weird for DMB because most of their stuff is way better live. Rooftop, Mercy, If Only, & BBN are all stinkers live, but great on the album. Yet, for some reason they choose those songs to play live.

    But overall, I still really like the album. Its a great listen from front to back. It flows really well.
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    Old 07-16-2015, 08:22 AM   #160
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dave&Tim41 View Post
    I think Broken Things is the best song Dave has written since the You Never Know (I exclude the '04 songs because they didn't have permanent lyrics, but otherwise they are better too). Lyrically impressive, musically great... just an all-around great song IMO.

    On the topic of this album, however, yes, in the beginning it did receive praise just because Lillywhite was the producer. Its not a great album.

    Broken Things (best song)
    BBN (doesn't translate live at all, just a new Shake Me)
    Mercy (boring)
    Gaucho (not a good song)
    Sweet (boring)
    The Riff (I like this one, wish they'd play it more than some of the others)
    Belly Full (its ok, just kinda there)
    If Only (boring)
    Rooftop (Dave's new Seven, and it isn't good)
    Snow Outside (great song, great studio track, doesn't translate live)
    Drunken Soldier (eh, it was hyped and it fell flat -- both studio and live)
    Snow outside from 9.9.12 proves the song translates to the live show. The band has pushed snow outside to the acoustic shows, which hasn't done it justice.
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    Old 07-17-2015, 03:12 AM   #161
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by space_raven View Post


    Sweet (studio) is Hello Again (studio) bad.

    IMO, Lillywhite dropped the ball big time on AFTW.
    What's wrong with the production on sweet? It's pretty faithful to how it was played live prior to it's recording. The song didn't change structurally from the live incarnation like Hello Again did. What happened to Hello Again was terrible, but Sweet really didn't change much, if at all.

    The quality of the production on this album is so far and above anything any other producer has done with DMB in studio, it's not even funny.
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    Old 07-18-2015, 11:57 AM   #162
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RobbtheRevelatr View Post
    What's wrong with the production on sweet? It's pretty faithful to how it was played live prior to it's recording. The song didn't change structurally from the live incarnation like Hello Again did. What happened to Hello Again was terrible, but Sweet really didn't change much, if at all.

    The quality of the production on this album is so far and above anything any other producer has done with DMB in studio, it's not even funny.
    Love both the songs live. For me it's not about how the songs changed or didn't change structurally, it's about how bad they sound in their respective studio forms. Sweet, when turned up loud, sounds like an amateur recorded it in a bathroom.

    I disagree. I think because it's Lillywhite who produced the album, that comment gets made. And also, I guess, it depends on what "you" (the listener) is looking for out of the production (I think Everyday and Busted Stuff are better from a production stand point). I just think DMB/Lillywhite half-assed AFTW in general. It literally sounds mailed in. IMO, of course.
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    Old 07-19-2015, 06:46 AM   #163
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by space_raven View Post
    Love both the songs live. For me it's not about how the songs changed or didn't change structurally, it's about how bad they sound in their respective studio forms. Sweet, when turned up loud, sounds like an amateur recorded it in a bathroom.

    I disagree. I think because it's Lillywhite who produced the album, that comment gets made. And also, I guess, it depends on what "you" (the listener) is looking for out of the production (I think Everyday and Busted Stuff are better from a production stand point). I just think DMB/Lillywhite half-assed AFTW in general. It literally sounds mailed in. IMO, of course.
    Well, that gets into the subjective part that I'm avoiding. I wouldn't expect the live versions of songs to mirror their album counterparts at all. But mailed in or not, it's better production quality than anything we've gotten so far out of other producers. Songs may not be as good to some (I think these are much better songs than we've gotten in awhile out of the band, but that's just not part of my argument here). Busted Stuff is very straightforward IMO.. it's good, but it's not as good as this. Everyday, much more straightforward than BS, actually.

    But what every producer besides Lillywhite (with the exception of Harris - I'd characterize his production on BS as very good, but a somewhat vanilla version of those songs than Lillywhite. If we were to include Some Devil into this discussion on AFTW, then we've got a good debate on our hands on which album is produced better, and I might even say Some Devil.. I'd have to think that through) lacks is how to bring out the sound of this band. Cavallo buried Boyd and turned up Tim. Ballard turned them into a watered down version of themselves. Mark Batson.. is well... Mark Batson. Harris is the only guy who managed to keep these guys sounding like DMB, but it wasn't as nuanced or rich. AFTW may lack the focus and style of the Big 3, but it's still miles better as a studio album than anything the other producers made with the band.
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    Old 07-19-2015, 08:38 AM   #164
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RobbtheRevelatr View Post
    Harris is the only guy who managed to keep these guys sounding like DMB
    Completely agree with this. We can hear all 5 instruments perfectly clear on Busted Stuff. It is probably the album I listen to the most.
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    Old 07-20-2015, 06:02 AM   #165
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RobbtheRevelatr View Post
    Well, that gets into the subjective part that I'm avoiding. I wouldn't expect the live versions of songs to mirror their album counterparts at all. But mailed in or not, it's better production quality than anything we've gotten so far out of other producers. Songs may not be as good to some (I think these are much better songs than we've gotten in awhile out of the band, but that's just not part of my argument here). Busted Stuff is very straightforward IMO.. it's good, but it's not as good as this. Everyday, much more straightforward than BS, actually.

    But what every producer besides Lillywhite (with the exception of Harris - I'd characterize his production on BS as very good, but a somewhat vanilla version of those songs than Lillywhite. If we were to include Some Devil into this discussion on AFTW, then we've got a good debate on our hands on which album is produced better, and I might even say Some Devil.. I'd have to think that through) lacks is how to bring out the sound of this band. Cavallo buried Boyd and turned up Tim. Ballard turned them into a watered down version of themselves. Mark Batson.. is well... Mark Batson. Harris is the only guy who managed to keep these guys sounding like DMB, but it wasn't as nuanced or rich. AFTW may lack the focus and style of the Big 3, but it's still miles better as a studio album than anything the other producers made with the band.
    I guess we can agree to disagree about AFTW. I think with the other producers outside of Lillywhite, what they did with DMB is exactly what was to be expected. Ballard is a pop producer = Everyday, Baston a hip-hop producer = Stand Up, Cavallo a rock producer = Big Whiskey. Still, IMO, all the members of DMB had their moments to shine on the studio albums not produced by Lillywhite, maybe not as cohesively, but moments nonetheless. I'd love to see Harris produce a DMB album start to finish, if it turned out to be a cross between Busted Stuff and Some Devil, I'd be extremely happy.
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    Old 07-20-2015, 08:05 AM   #166
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by snuffles View Post
    Snow outside from 9.9.12 proves the song translates to the live show. The band has pushed snow outside to the acoustic shows, which hasn't done it justice.
    Completely agreed. Snow Outside is a monster live song, electric however. Acoustic kills it IMO.

    There aren't that many sounds acoustic that are better than electic unfortunately. Many are fitting, but not better.
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    Old 07-20-2015, 02:46 PM   #167
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    I would love to hear Broken Things open a show.
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    Old 08-26-2015, 12:56 PM   #168
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    No I would not call it over rated at all since there's lots of very good stuff from this release. But I do still like albums like Crash way more.
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    Old 06-01-2016, 02:16 PM   #169
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    I am a big fan of AFTW songs, and its production quality.
    I mean, I love almost every song so I guess I just don't get it.

    I had an 'oh' moment last year when then played the Pink Floyd outro on Drunken Solider. In that setting it was just... perfect.

    A lot of the older studio work I actually don't like because it is too clean and poppy with way too many layers. So many drum and gtr overdubbed that they could never recreate it live. The new album has a rawness, an edge, and its not overproduced like what I hear in the older recordings.

    That said, we need to hear more AFTW live! Maybe they are just working up the gorge 2016!!
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    Old 06-03-2016, 09:23 AM   #170
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Heyberto View Post
    It's still their best album since tLWS
    i agree.
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    Old 06-27-2016, 06:03 AM   #171
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    agree disagree
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    Originally Posted by dwill26 View Post
    Well its amazing because of what Lillywhite can do with DMB in the studio. If he was on Stand Up but it still sounded as shitty as it does then no I dont see it getting any more praise just because of Lillywhite. And lazy? How the hell is this album lazy?

    Is AFTW getting alot of praise because of what Lillywhite did with it? Yes, and deservedly so. Is it getting more praise just because of the Lillywhite name? I don't think so.
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    Old 09-29-2016, 09:59 AM   #172
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    It think it's a disappointment. IMHO the live albums keep getting better and better and the studio albums the other way around. Gaucho is a good song, but the children's choir... It's too Mariah Carey etc.
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    Old 10-11-2016, 12:16 AM   #173
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    I just don't rate it with their best work, which for me includes Big Whiskey. It's the 2nd worse album they have ever made, but way ahead of Stand UP. Just ranked a notch lower than Everyday, Busted Stuff and the AFTW. In that order. The sound quality itself is just bad. I have the original singles of Gaucho and Mercy still in my itunes and they sound night and day better. Don't know what happened in the final mastering and mixing of this album.

    And it only makes it continually worse because it's the only album they've released in the last 8 years at this point. You would think it would have been a masterpiece if it took so long to make and continues to take so long to follow up on. Why haven't they come out with a new album yet? It's very strange.
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    Old 10-11-2016, 08:26 AM   #174
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DMB1983 View Post
    And it only makes it continually worse because it's the only album they've released in the last 8 years at this point. You would think it would have been a masterpiece if it took so long to make and continues to take so long to follow up on. Why haven't they come out with a new album yet? It's very strange.
    BWGK was released in 2009 (7 years ago)

    AFTW was released in 2012, meaning it was only 3 years in between releases and must factor in the band's constant touring during those years. so it didn't really "take so long" to make
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    Old 10-21-2016, 11:36 AM   #175
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Haven't listened to it in a while but for me basically the middle of the album is a huge lull that doesn't really work well after a strong start and finish. Although, when I say strong finish I should not that over time I found that Drunken Soldier became pretty disappointing to me. Musically very good but one song where the lyrical content is just drastically out of place given the scale and grandeur of the instrumentation. The theme and generally weak lyrics just doesn't fit with that epic (for lack of a better word) sound the rest of the track presents.
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    Old 10-21-2016, 12:25 PM   #176
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DMB1983 View Post
    Why haven't they come out with a new album yet? It's very strange.
    Because they've never enjoyed making albums in remotely the same way they like playing shows. That's fairly obvious.
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    Old 11-07-2016, 09:02 AM   #177
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    I keep asking for more AFTW variety (despite how much I actually dislike AFTW) when it comes to Live Trax releases, yet every time it gets questioned if it's the variety that we need for LTs. Every single time. Tells me AFTW is not universally beloved.
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    Old 12-19-2016, 09:08 AM   #178
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
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    I keep asking for more AFTW variety (despite how much I actually dislike AFTW) when it comes to Live Trax releases, yet every time it gets questioned if it's the variety that we need for LTs. Every single time. Tells me AFTW is not universally beloved.
    Definitely not.

    I personally still think this is a great record, which shows what this "version" of DMB can do.

    The weakness, from my perspective, still comes from Dave. Musically, this album is the tits, save for Rooftop. Blech.
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    Old 12-19-2016, 07:01 PM   #179
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RainDog1980 View Post
    The weakness, from my perspective, still comes from Dave.
    how so??
    coldblueice is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 12-23-2016, 06:39 AM   #180
    RainDog1980
     
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by coldblueice View Post
    how so??
    Lyrics.

    Songs like If Only and Drunken Soldier could be phenomenal songs, if their lyrical content matched the music.
    RainDog1980 is offline   Reply With Quote
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