Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

[dmbmuskie]

Originally Posted by Bafugama

I think that getting to a summit in any profession gives you the idea that you're a genius (and in many cases you are), and then these guys purchase sports franchises and try to run it like they ran their business, micromanaging and tweaking and being in control of everything... you just can't do that in professional sports, because although there's the cliche that 'it's a business', at the same time it's not. You can't just run a sports team like a business, because you'll end up in the hole financially and not competitive on the field.

I actually think you can run a sports team like a bussiness, and teams like the Pirates and Clippers are just money making ventures for the owners. I want my owner to not give a shit if he loses money because he has FU money 100 times over.

[Bafugama]

Originally Posted by dmbmuskie

I actually think you can run a sports team like a bussiness, and teams like the Pirates and Clippers are just money making ventures for the owners. I want my owner to not give a shit if he loses money because he has FU money 100 times over.

Yea, but the Pirates & Clippers are doing this at the spite of their customers. PNC Park is gorgeous, but if they continue to not put out a worthwhile product, attendance is going to drop. Happened in places like Baltimore & Colorado, also. For years Baltimore was rocking the top of the attendance lists at Camden Yards (best park in baseball), and eventually people realized that the team was awful and stopped going. Their attendance #'s are awful now. Pirates will keep going in that direction. Maybe that will wake them up, once they start losing money.

[dmbmuskie]

Originally Posted by Bafugama

Yea, but the Pirates & Clippers are doing this at the spite of their customers. PNC Park is gorgeous, but if they continue to not put out a worthwhile product, attendance is going to drop. Happened in places like Baltimore & Colorado, also. For years Baltimore was rocking the top of the attendance lists at Camden Yards (best park in baseball), and eventually people realized that the team was awful and stopped going. Their attendance #'s are awful now. Pirates will keep going in that direction. Maybe that will wake them up, once they start losing money.

I don't think people will ever stop going. It truly is one of the best things about Pittsburgh, and people stopped caring about the baseball a long time ago.

[joepsu0985]

Originally Posted by dmbmuskie

I don't think people will ever stop going. It truly is one of the best things about Pittsburgh, and people stopped caring about the baseball a long time ago.

It's sickening.

[Bafugama]

Originally Posted by dmbmuskie

I don't think people will ever stop going. It truly is one of the best things about Pittsburgh, and people stopped caring about the baseball a long time ago.

It happened in Baltimore and it'll happen in Pittsburgh. Not a whole lot different between these two teams the past 20 years.

[dmbmuskie]

Originally Posted by Bafugama

It happened in Baltimore and it'll happen in Pittsburgh. Not a whole lot different between these two teams the past 20 years.

I've only been to Baltimore once, but I think there is more to do there than there is in Pittsburgh. Whenever I go back I try to catch a game, and I don't think that will ever change.

[Bafugama]

Originally Posted by dmbmuskie

I've only been to Baltimore once, but I think there is more to do there than there is in Pittsburgh. Whenever I go back I try to catch a game, and I don't think that will ever change.

There are also more sports to rally around in Pittsburgh. All I'm saying is that I think that a great park can only get you so far with a mediocre product.

[joepsu0985]

Originally Posted by dmbmuskie

I've only been to Baltimore once, but I think there is more to do there than there is in Pittsburgh. Whenever I go back I try to catch a game, and I don't think that will ever change.

I mean not really that much where Camden is. There is the Inner Harbor that is close, but other than that it is comparable. The South Side and Station Square all have bars and restaurants, and the north side is growing slowly.

[hmich176]

Originally Posted by dmbmuskie

I was talking about this with my dad the other day, but I really think the Pirates should move to AAA. I do not know how that could work, but I think the bussiness model they are using right now would be much more succesful at that level.

Old topic here...
...but that's crazy. The team is financially successful. They're not losing money. And that's what the owners care about. So the GMs have been restricted on who to pick up and how much money to spend. It's not like the owners have the money of the bigger market teams, but they have enough money to make a decent splash.

But, since they're making money, why risk losing money by signing big contracts (like what happened to the Penguins) when you can have smaller contracts and make money.

It's not about what's happening on the field, it's about how much money they've got in the bank at the end of the year.

I would argue they would be far less successful at the AAA level. They're a joke of a franchise already, basically a AAAA team. They might as well fold if they were demoted to AAA.

[Taylor36]

Haha i live in Baltimore and go to school just outside pittsburgh. Great football, horrible baseball. Cheap seats though... i got into opening day for the pirates for $3 and they were having dollar hot dogs. The stadium was still empty, probably didn't help it was the first night of the pens playoffs.


EDIT: It was worth the 3 bucks to watch the pirogies (sp???) race.

[Bluecow2]

Originally Posted by dmbmuskie

I don't think people will ever stop going. It truly is one of the best things about Pittsburgh, and people stopped caring about the baseball a long time ago.

I'm very confused by your arguments. The Pirates have one of the lowest home attendance averages in the league. People aren't going to games now. If they had a better product, there is a heck of a lot of upisde potential in more ticket sales.
28th of 30 in average ticket sales (18,595)
28th of 30 in average capacity (48.5%)
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

Percent capacity since it opened in 2001:
2001: 80.4%
2002: 58.9%
2003: 55.4%
2004: 55.0%
2005: 60.0%
2006: 60.7%
2007: 57.7%
2008: 52.4%
2009: 48.5%

People have stopped going to Pirates games. Particularly in the last 2 years, when they give away their best players in May and June.

Horrible managment. Horrible business operation.

[hmich176]

Originally Posted by Bluecow2

I'm very confused by your arguments. The Pirates have one of the lowest home attendance averages in the league. People aren't going to games now. If they had a better product, there is a heck of a lot of upisde potential in more ticket sales.
28th of 30 in average ticket sales (18,595)
28th of 30 in average capacity (48.5%)
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

Percent capacity since it opened in 2001:
2001: 80.4%
2002: 58.9%
2003: 55.4%
2004: 55.0%
2005: 60.0%
2006: 60.7%
2007: 57.7%
2008: 52.4%
2009: 48.5%

People have stopped going to Pirates games. Particularly in the last 2 years, when they give away their best players in May and June.

Horrible managment. Horrible business operation.

Are you sure about that? Did you forget that we're in a recession and we've been in one since 2007?

[dreamingtreeIU]

Guys wanna quit robbing our AAA team? Haha, hopefully Ian Snell gets his head out of his ass.

[joepsu0985]

Originally Posted by Taylor36

Haha i live in Baltimore and go to school just outside pittsburgh. Great football, horrible baseball. Cheap seats though... i got into opening day for the pirates for $3 and they were having dollar hot dogs. The stadium was still empty, probably didn't help it was the first night of the pens playoffs.


EDIT: It was worth the 3 bucks to watch the pirogies (sp???) race.

You went to opening night. Opening day was a standing room sell out and Duke pitched a complete game. I have never been to a complete game other than that. It was awesome seeing the ball park into a game like that. They do have buck nigh a few times this season. Too bad they don't have a college night and cheap beers. I really like going to Pirates games, but as a sports fan I like getting into games, but it's hard with this team. It's a fun night out whether you tailgate or just go to the bars on the North Side. It's actually a great date because you don't have to focus on the game. That is just sad. Now get me in the Igloo, and I'd be the worst date on earth.

[joepsu0985]

Originally Posted by dreamingtreeIU

Guys wanna quit robbing our AAA team? Haha, hopefully Ian Snell gets his head out of his ass.

17ks down there and he will get rocked for 17 runs up here.

[Bluecow2]

Originally Posted by hmich176

Are you sure about that? Did you forget that we're in a recession and we've been in one since 2007?

I need to look, but I believe baseball attendance is up so far this year nationally. Don't know about last year.

[Bluecow2]

If I'm doing my math correctly, average attendance across all major league ballparks:

2005: 30,957
2006: 31,437
2007: 32,770
2008: 32,516

So far this year, average attendance is 29,809. But it's not a fair comparison since attendance always increases in the summer so that number will continue to climb.
So it certainly does not seem like the overall economy explains the Pirates significant drop last few years. However, no matter the reason for the drop...the fact is, Pirates games are not well attended and people have stopped going.

[dmbmuskie]

The attendance will pick up now that the Stanley Cup playoffs are over.

[Bluecow2]

Originally Posted by Bluecow2

Percent capacity since it opened in 2001:
2001: 80.4%
2002: 58.9%
2003: 55.4%
2004: 55.0%
2005: 60.0%
2006: 60.7%
2007: 57.7%
2008: 52.4%
2009: 48.5%.

Oops...I should not have included 2009 as it's not apples to apples data.
(due to summer, not stanley cup)

[dmb@uvm]

Its a Woot-Off today!!

[Bluecow2]

Originally Posted by Bluecow2

Horrible managment. Horrible business operation.

While I can't really fault them for dumping the rest of their team today....I still can't comprehend why they started dumping so early when they were having their best season in 15 years. Just a pathetic sports operation.

[dmbmuskie]

Originally Posted by Bluecow2

While I can't really fault them for dumping the rest of their team today....I still can't comprehend why they started dumping so early when they were having their best season in 15 years. Just a pathetic sports operation.

They're trying to build a winner not scrap together a .500 team.

Why is that so hard for everyone to understand?

[Bluecow2]

Originally Posted by dmbmuskie

They're trying to build a winner not scrap together a .500 team.

Why is that so hard for everyone to understand?

It's very easy to understand...but they have been dumping year after year after year after year, and it hasn't worked. They aren't building anything. IT's one of the worst run operations in sports. They don't invest in the team and because of that, people don't go to games. They try to cut corners, save as much money as possible, and have nothing to show for it....I expect next year, and the year after to be no different.

[dmbmuskie]

Originally Posted by Bluecow2

It's very easy to understand...but they have been dumping year after year after year after year, and it hasn't worked. They aren't building anything. IT's one of the worst run operations in sports. They don't invest in the team and because of that, people don't go to games. They try to cut corners, save as much money as possible, and have nothing to show for it....I expect next year, and the year after to be no different.

They have never done what they finally did this year and finally burn the place to the ground. These moves may not have any long term dividend, but they're finally making the right moves.

[joepsu0985]

3 years and 3 losing seasons from now they will use the same excuse when they trade away the prospects they get.

[dmbmuskie]

Originally Posted by joepsu0985

3 years and 3 losing seasons from now they will use the same excuse when they trade away the prospects they get.

If they're not in a position to win that is what they should do. I don't understand why the people of Pittsburgh are happy with this team aiming for the middle.

[Bluecow2]

Originally Posted by dmbmuskie

If they're not in a position to win that is what they should do. I don't understand why the people of Pittsburgh are happy with this team aiming for the middle.

You really look at this and think this has anything to do with winning or making the playoffs? This is 100% about money, pure and simple...it is year in and year out. The cultivate strong players, and as soon as they hit their peek, they get traded...and the cycle continues again. The management has absolutely no concern for fielding a winning team or for getting fans to come to games...they will keep costs as low as possible while making a profity through revenue sharing. It's a pathetic sports operation, and I can't even fathom how you can keep defending them with a straight face.

Seriously, if you look at what the Pirates organization does year in and year out...and think it's about building a winner...you are clearly caught up in something far, far, from reality.

[GoLdpHiShDMB]

i have friends who actually watch every pirates game while i rock my phillies cap.

i wonderi f they even kno anyone on the roster anymore

[Bluecow2]

Originally Posted by dmbmuskie

If they're not in a position to win that is what they should do. I don't understand why the people of Pittsburgh are happy with this team aiming for the middle.

You don't win by trading away players at their peak. You bring in other players to support them and that's how a winner is built. Management runs the team like a minor league club, cultivating players for other teams to keep payroll as low as possible and turn a profit despite having no fans.

[dmbmuskie]

Originally Posted by Bluecow2

You really look at this and think this has anything to do with winning or making the playoffs? This is 100% about money, pure and simple...it is year in and year out. The cultivate strong players, and as soon as they hit their peek, they get traded...and the cycle continues again. The management has absolutely no concern for fielding a winning team or for getting fans to come to games...they will keep costs as low as possible while making a profity through revenue sharing. It's a pathetic sports operation, and I can't even fathom how you can keep defending them with a straight face.

Seriously, if you look at what the Pirates organization does year in and year out...and think it's about building a winner...you are clearly caught up in something far, far, from reality.

I would agree with everything you said last spring, but the new people they have in charge deserve a chance. I support everything they have done 100%, and has been a large improvement of the Littlefield/McClatchy era.