Old Timers Thread

[jimmything014]

I feel like there was a thread started similar to this at some point, but i tried to search and could not find it so feel free to lock this up if a thread already exists.

Recently i have been going through the old minarets forums at dmbalmanac, and have found it very interesting reading the thoughts of people who were experiencing this band at such a cool point in their career. This made me wonder if there were any people here on antsmarching who were also active on the minarets forum back in 93-95? If there are i would love to hear your thoughts on the bands current state, and maybe some cool stories from the early years of dmb. I would give a lot of money to be able to travel back to those times to hear dmb in its purest form, in my opinion.

[tbernsen05]

This is a cool idea (whether recycled or not) for a thread. I definitely was not around back then, but I look forward to seeing what kind of responses you get here.

[dmbwildcat]

I agree. I wasn't on Minarets, but I was very active on nancies.org. I attended my first 3 shows in 1996. I still enjoy seeing the band live, but its a far different experience all the way around. Once I got in my late teens and early 20's I would go to several shows in a row, sometimes a couple weeks worth. I have a wonderful mother who indulged my DMB obsession and took care of me on the road, needless to say those were some of the best times of my life. I went to the first two weeks of the 2000 Lillywhite tour and had many memorable nights. To me, nothing will compare to the sound of the original 5. The band still sounds great today, but there are just too many instruments. Rashawn is nice on some songs, but the addition of the trumpet has killed the saxophone. They play too many horn sections and there aren't enough saxophone solos in my opinion. Tim is incredible, but overpowering at times. It seems as though many of the songs have a rock focus instead of jazzy DMB sound that hooked me in the early 90's. Leroi's saxophone on BOWA was what got me hooked, I will never forget the first time I heard that song. Switching producers from Lillywhite to Ballard to Batson to Cavallo to Lillywhite then back to Cavallo has been a wreck in my opinion. Lillywhite knows how to produce DMB better than anyone. He was there when the band found and forged their sound, these others guy tried to mold DMB too much, Lillywhite allows DMB to be DMB.

Of course the staleness of the setlists is a pretty big problem as is 2 sets. 2 sets was nice once, but it has no allure for me anymore. I don't need 4 songs just Dave or Dave and Tim, then maybe just 3-4 full band. Half of the show is almost a waste. The lack of variety in the setlists will probably keep me from going back to back nights...as does the fact that I'm 35 and have two young kids. Hearing Granny, You & Me, Everyday, Seven, etc. just isn't my thing, there is no exploration on those songs. Do I like those songs? Sure. Do I want to hear them live? No. I was thrilled at my last show to hear Recently, Typical, Minarets, and Halloween. It was a good time and worth the $ etc. But too often nights like that are rare. Don't get me started on the LL's, they are awful and one of the main reasons for repetitive sets in my opinion. What they do to certain songs should be criminal. It also wouldn't break my heart at all to see Rashawn go. Sure, he adds something to certain songs, but I could do without the screeching loud mess that Grey St. has become. Listen to a Grey St. from 2000, that's what the song should sound like. Also, the "salsa" jam on Warehouse just doesn't do it for me. Watch some vids on youtube of Coffin playing with DMB and the flecktones in the early 2000's. His playing is beautiful, now he Rarely takes a sax solo unless its #41, in my opinion that can be attributed to Rashawn.

And what is the deal with INCREDIBLE songs like Break Free, Shotgun, Crazy Easy, and Sugar Will get played all the time in maybe like 2004 then they are basically forgotten for songs like Alligator Pie, Dive In, Shake Me. Come on now! I mean would it kill Dave to actually sit down for a few hours listen to the live recordings throw some lyrics together and make a proper recording. I honestly have little hope of those songs ever getting the proper studio treatment. Are they unable to tell what their best compositions are?!?!? I love this band, even named my son Carter, but I think they could make some better decisions with their approach to live shows and recordings.

[jimmything014]

Thanks for your perspective dmbwildcat. The one thing that really shocked me reading the minarets forum from October of 1994 is that the things people complained about back then are still for the most part the same today. Most of the complaints centered around lack of setlist variety ("why do they have to play the whole uttad album every show?") Boyd being out of tune, dave not writing and playing enough new material, and people whining about the crowds at shows. Don't get me wrong, most of the comments were people raving about how great the show was they went to the night before, but I was just surprised to see the same complaints we see today.

I agree with you 100% on Rashawn and Tim. I was not a fan yet when it was just the original 5, I didn't get into the band until 2005 when I was 18, but I have listened a lot to older material with just the 5 and I def prefer that line up bc the instruments have more room to breathe.

Thanks again dmbwildcat, looking forward to hearing more stories from people who were around in the early years.

[Hilly]

Originally Posted by jimmything014

Thanks for your perspective dmbwildcat. The one thing that really shocked me reading the minarets forum from October of 1994 is that the things people complained about back then are still for the most part the same today. Most of the complaints centered around lack of setlist variety ("why do they have to play the whole uttad album every show?") Boyd being out of tune, dave not writing and playing enough new material, and people whining about the crowds at shows. Don't get me wrong, most of the comments were people raving about how great the show was they went to the night before, but I was just surprised to see the same complaints we see today.

I agree with you 100% on Rashawn and Tim. I was not a fan yet when it was just the original 5, I didn't get into the band until 2005 when I was 18, but I have listened a lot to older material with just the 5 and I def prefer that line up bc the instruments have more room to breathe.

Thanks again dmbwildcat, looking forward to hearing more stories from people who were around in the early years.

People have always complained about this band. With each album. Each tour. Then they like to pretend that everyone loved it "back in the day."

Then as time goes on, it gets a little rosier and rosier each year.

People will look back fondly on the 2014 tour as well.

[AJF_41]

Originally Posted by Hilly

People have always complained about this band. With each album. Each tour. Then they like to pretend that everyone loved it "back in the day."

Then as time goes on, it gets a little rosier and rosier each year.

People will look back fondly on the 2014 tour as well.

[hailtopitt]

Originally Posted by AJF_41

[dmbwildcat]

Originally Posted by Hilly

People have always complained about this band. With each album. Each tour. Then they like to pretend that everyone loved it "back in the day."

Then as time goes on, it gets a little rosier and rosier each year.

People will look back fondly on the 2014 tour as well.

I think that is highly doubtful.

[kelchlsm]

Originally Posted by Hilly

People have always complained about this band. With each album. Each tour. Then they like to pretend that everyone loved it "back in the day."

Then as time goes on, it gets a little rosier and rosier each year.

People will look back fondly on the 2014 tour as well.

Nobody, from what I remember was complaining pre-2005. I think the only complaints I remember was that DDTW opening a lot in 2003, and OSW in 2004.

[Hilly]

Originally Posted by kelchlsm

Nobody, from what I remember was complaining pre-2005. I think the only complaints I remember was that DDTW opening a lot in 2003, and OSW in 2004.

Fans hated BTCS.
Fans hated when BTCS material was popping up.
Fans hated the stale sets of 1995-2004.

[kelchlsm]

Ya I wasn't on the internet sites really before 2002, so I guess I was speaking for 2002 - on. Cant really comment on the BTCS material.

[Dramageek]

Originally Posted by Hilly

Fans hated BTCS.
Fans hated when BTCS material was popping up.
Fans hated the stale sets of 1995-2004.

I definitely remember the complaints about these things, though they didn't resonate with me because I was just getting into the band in 1997-98. There always are such complaints with ANY band.

But Fans hated these things so much in 1998 that a weekend of Giants Stadium shows sold out in an hour or two.

[Hilly]

Originally Posted by Dramageek

I definitely remember the complaints about these things, though they didn't resonate with me because I was just getting into the band in 1997-98. There always are such complaints with ANY band.

But Fans hated these things so much in 1998 that a weekend of Giants Stadium shows sold out in an hour or two.

The "ants" equivalent of fans hated those things.

The band was still trendy and popular, and had a place on the modern radio.

Trends and radio has changed.

Staind and Creed were really big then too. Radio, even rock radio, has seen some major shifts in the past decade and a half.

[sheldonlevene]

Originally Posted by Hilly

The "ants" equivalent of fans hated those things.

The band was still trendy and popular, and had a place on the modern radio.

Trends and radio has changed.

Staind and Creed were really big then too. Radio, even rock radio, has seen some major shifts in the past decade and a half.

Still are boss

[evolvefurther41]

1995:
http://dmbalmanac.com/songchecklist/38.htm

complaints about stale setlists and not enough new material.


2015:
http://dmbalmanac.com/songchecklist/128.htm

complaints about stale setlists and not enough old material.



Band can't win.

[dmbwildcat]

Originally Posted by evolvefurther41

1995:
http://dmbalmanac.com/songchecklist/38.htm

complaints about stale setlists and not enough new material.


2015:
http://dmbalmanac.com/songchecklist/128.htm

complaints about stale setlists and not enough old material.



Band can't win.

Stale setlists in 1995 can be expected with the only release being UTTAD. Ten years later there are 7 more albums to draw from, stale sets shouldn't be an issue.

[evolvefurther41]

Originally Posted by dmbwildcat

Stale setlists in 1995 can be expected with the only release being UTTAD. Ten years later there are 7 more albums to draw from, stale sets shouldn't be an issue.

did you click on the 2nd link?

[Jadorsey34]

Originally Posted by Hilly

Fans hated BTCS.
Fans hated when BTCS material was popping up.
Fans hated the stale sets of 1995-2004.

This is true. I remember mass exodus to the bathroom lines during Dreaming Tree and Last Stop. BTCS was not beloved when it first came out by any means.

[spider-man]

I have been going to shows since 1998 and have been on nancies.org and ants. A few observations - back then people complained about DMB and the shows, whether it was Boyd being out of tune, the crowds, solos shifting from LeRoi to Boyd, anything to do with the Everyday album, or complaints about how songs were not as good anymore (e.g., Grey St dropped verse).

From my perspective, I completely understand why Dave will choose to play some songs like Cornbread over something that a lot of Ants members want, like Dreaming Tree. Have you ever looked around at the crowd during the songs? The crowd is typically engaged and dancing during songs like Cornbread, but when Dreaming Tree is played you can barely hear Dave singing because of all of the people having conversations throughout the audience. When Dave looks out at the crowd, he sees the crowd reactions and that has to influence his song choices for setlists.

[jimmything014]

Originally Posted by spider-man

I have been going to shows since 1998 and have been on nancies.org and ants. A few observations - back then people complained about DMB and the shows, whether it was Boyd being out of tune, the crowds, solos shifting from LeRoi to Boyd, anything to do with the Everyday album, or complaints about how songs were not as good anymore (e.g., Grey St dropped verse).

From my perspective, I completely understand why Dave will choose to play some songs like Cornbread over something that a lot of Ants members want, like Dreaming Tree. Have you ever looked around at the crowd during the songs? The crowd is typically engaged and dancing during songs like Cornbread, but when Dreaming Tree is played you can barely hear Dave singing because of all of the people having conversations throughout the audience. When Dave looks out at the crowd, he sees the crowd reactions and that has to influence his song choices for setlists.

This may have some validity to it based on some comments I have heard dave make about wanting to see people dancing, or something about he always sees the one person not dancing which he admitted affected him in some way. Its funny because something else that grabbed my attention from those forums was the amount of people who had been following the band since 1991-92 expressing their concern of the band becoming too commercialized with the recent release of UTTAD. Maybe that is ultimately what led to the demise of the music. Their popularity hit the peak right around the time they made the awful decision of scrapping LWS and going with ED. Did that surge of popularity force them into making a decision based on commercial interests as opposed to creative interests, which all their decisions were based on in 91-92?

[jimmything014]

Here is a quote you all might find humorous.

" NOT TO END ON A BAD NOTE BUT I WAS NOT A HAPPY CAMPER WHEN DAVE CLOSED
ON ANTS. IT WAS NOT PRETTY TO SEE ALL THE IDIOTS WHO HAD BEEN YELLING FOR IT T
HE WHOLE SHOW TO GET IT. I AM WITH MANY OF YOU OUT THERE IN DAVELAND AND BELIE
VE HE SHOULD RETIRE SOME OF THESE OLDIES...IT WAS GET TO SEE DAVE
BAND!!!! LETS ALL ENJOY THESE PRECIOUS MOMENTS BEFORE FUCKIN' TVLAND GETS A HO
LD OF OUR BOYS FROM C'VILLE."

This was part of someone's review on the minarets forum of the show on 10/19/1994.

[crashintonickdm]

people can say whatever they want to make the narrative go a skewed way. The fact is, ticket sales are at their worst, and the overall excitement has completely Died off.

Most don't even give a shit anymore. And it's because the band made it that way.


Hilly, Mateo, dontdrink, and letyoudown can try to spin things to make it seem like everything is fine and it's just a pocket of complainers. Reality tells us something different

[LetYouDown22]

Originally Posted by spider-man

I have been going to shows since 1998 and have been on nancies.org and ants. A few observations - back then people complained about DMB and the shows, whether it was Boyd being out of tune, the crowds, solos shifting from LeRoi to Boyd, anything to do with the Everyday album, or complaints about how songs were not as good anymore (e.g., Grey St dropped verse).

From my perspective, I completely understand why Dave will choose to play some songs like Cornbread over something that a lot of Ants members want, like Dreaming Tree. Have you ever looked around at the crowd during the songs? The crowd is typically engaged and dancing during songs like Cornbread, but when Dreaming Tree is played you can barely hear Dave singing because of all of the people having conversations throughout the audience. When Dave looks out at the crowd, he sees the crowd reactions and that has to influence his song choices for setlists.

Good post. Had to read it again as I've never seen someone who saw the band back in 1998 and understands why the band plays Cornbread. Refreshing.

[willndmb]

Originally Posted by evolvefurther41

1995:
http://dmbalmanac.com/songchecklist/38.htm

complaints about stale setlists and not enough new material.


2015:
http://dmbalmanac.com/songchecklist/128.htm

complaints about stale setlists and not enough old material.



Band can't win.

thats because new material was good in 95 and not it sucks

[bartender_man]

Not many fans around here from the pre '96 days. Probably under 10.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by bartender_man

Not many fans around here from the pre '96 days. Probably under 10.

lot more than 10.

[bartender_man]

Originally Posted by Jake

lot more than 10.

I was being sarcastic but seriously you don't see many of them around here on a regular basis anymore

[jimmything014]

Yea i was really hoping to hear from some people who were around in the 92-93 era. Jake are there some around ants who still follow the band quite a bit?

[Jake]

Originally Posted by jimmything014

Yea i was really hoping to hear from some people who were around in the 92-93 era. Jake are there some around ants who still follow the band quite a bit?

of course there are. They may not be on Ants daily but they are still around

[jimmything014]

Originally Posted by Jake

of course there are. They may not be on Ants daily but they are still around

Hopefully they see this thread and can provide us with their perspective