** Official Bayonet & Horse Lovin' Obama Thread **

[ShotgunDMB]

Originally Posted by junior94

So, a lot of us are still just so surprised we're seeing a black man become president within our lifetime.

Pffffftt. That's easy. Now how long until we have a black female president. Who's gay. :lol


(and let's say a midget too, just 'cause) :p

I'm shocked at how many people are shocked we elected a "black" president. There's just never been a viable candidate that appealed to the mainstream of society. Obama is really the 1st guy who didn't make a name for himself in the race grievances game.

[junior94]

Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB

I'm shocked at how many people are shocked we elected a "black" president. There's just never been a viable candidate that appealed to the mainstream of society. Obama is really the 1st guy who didn't make a name for himself in the race grievances game.

For the record, I wasn't "shocked" at all, though I don't know if you were necessarily including me in that 'how many people' reference.

Also once we were in this campaign run, and certainly the last few months, I was also not shocked then, I meant it more in the way of speaking in the general span of a lifetime. And I'd take a guess that's the way most are thinking when and if they say they are "shocked". I mean in the grand of scheme of things, only 40 odd years removed from the civil rights movement, it's not much more than the blink of an eye that we've now elected a black man as the leader of the free world. So while there's the fact that now that we've seen him for like 2 years and it's clear that he was more than capable and worthy of the task, again, looking at it in the broadest possible perspective, yes of course it's a pretty damn big deal.

[ShotgunDMB]

Eh, people are making too big of a deal about his skin color. We should be over that by now. I'm more concerned about his policies rather than stupid shit like his ethnicity.

Yes, we've progressed over the past forty years. Shouldn't come as a shock, at least to the younger generations.

[TwoStep2888]

Counterpoint: gocubsgo

[thestand]

I believe brettfavrey has used "the affirmative action candidate" a handful of times, as well.

EDIT: To wrap the conversations together, who is for affirmative action? Michael Steele. :lol

[junior94]

Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB

Eh, people are making too big of a deal about his skin color. We should be over that by now. I'm more concerned about his policies rather than stupid shit like his ethnicity.

Yes, we've progressed over the past forty years. Shouldn't come as a shock, at least to the younger generations.

Well, people should be more concerned over his policies, that's the only thing with which they should be concerned, of course that's the right avenue to travel, but of course that's not reality. And yes as far as we've progressed, there's still far too much racism in the country, and partly because of that I think it is still perfectly valid that his skin color would be significant.

In a perfect world it wouldn't and never would have been relevant, but...

[junior94]

Originally Posted by thestand

I believe brettfavrey has used "the affirmative action candidate" a handful of times, as well.

Look, the dude obviously dislikes Obama (maybe downright can't stand him) he's an ultra conservative, he's gonna pretty much find any way possible to convey the "real" reasons Obama shouldn't be president. I'm really not too surprised.

[ShotgunDMB]

Originally Posted by junior94

Well, people should be more concerned over his policies, that's the only thing with which they should be concerned, of course that's the right avenue to travel, but of course that's not reality. And yes as far as we've progressed, there's still far too much racism in the country, and partly because of that I think it is still perfectly valid that his skin color would be significant.

In a perfect world it wouldn't and never would have been relevant, but...

In general, I'm just sick of hearing about race. If people would shut the hell up about what we need to do for this group, and that group then maybe we could really get somewhere with race relations. As it is, there's way too many people who act like we're still living in the 1950's and 60's. Let's start treating everyone as equals on the basis of their character and qualifications A.K.A. like grown ups, move the hell on and quit the bitching.:)

[thestand]

Excellent NYT article (but aren't they all, Comrades!)

After Breakthrough, Europe Looks in Mirror

By STEVEN ERLANGER

PARIS — In the general European euphoria over the election of Barack Obama, there is the beginning of self-reflection about Europe’s own troubles with racial integration. Many are asking if there could be a French, British, German or Italian Obama, and everyone knows the answer is no, not anytime soon.

It is risky to make racial comparisons between America and Europe, given all the historical and cultural differences. But race had long been one reason that Europeans, harking back to the days when famous American blacks like Josephine Baker and James Baldwin found solace in France, looked down on the United States, even as Europe developed postcolonial racial problems of its own.

“They always said, ‘You think race relations are bad here in France, check out the U.S.,’ ” said Mohamed Hamidi, former editor of the Bondy Blog, founded after the 2005 riots in the heavily immigrant suburbs of Paris.

“But that argument can no longer stand,” he said.

For many immigrants to Europe, Mr. Obama’s victory is “a small revolution” toward better overall treatment of minorities, said Nadia Azieze, 31, an Algerian-born nurse who grew up here. “It will never be the same,” she said, over a meal of rice and lamb in the racially mixed Paris neighborhood of Barbès-Rochechouart.

Her sister, Cherine, 29, is a computer engineer. Mr. Obama “really represents the dream of America — if you work, you can make it,” she said. “It’s a hope for the entire world.”

But the sisters are less optimistic about the realities of France, where minorities have a limited political role, with only one black deputy elected to the National Assembly from mainland France.

Has the Obama election caused any real self-reflection among the majority here? “It’s politically correct to say, ‘O.K., great! He’s black,’ and clap,” Nadia said. “But deep down, there’s no change. People say one thing and believe another.”

In all the jobs she has ever had, she said, “I’ve always been asked to do more, because I’m an immigrant. We always have to prove ourselves.”

Down the street, picking through the cheap clothes on sidewalk stands, Fatou Diedhiou, 34, born in Senegal, said that Mr. Obama’s victory may make the French give blacks “a bit of respect.” But she finds deep racism among the French, who she says “think that all blacks are illiterate and can’t do anything but clean.”

Mr. Obama is an exceptional figure even in the United States, a nation of immigrants with a long and complex history of racial problems going back to the Indian wars and the extensive slave trade, which produced a bloody civil war.

Most European countries were relatively monoethnic until the postcolonial period. Britain, for example, was largely white until the mid-20th century and still does not have a substantial black middle class, while French immigrants are almost all from former French colonies in North Africa, like Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia, or in black Africa, like Mali, Senegal and Ivory Coast.

Measured by political representation of minorities, both the United States and Europe seem lagging, though Mr. Obama’s victory seemed to underscore how much farther behind Europe is.

Mr. Obama is the only black in the current Senate, and unless he is replaced by an African-American, the new Senate will have none. The new House has 39 black representatives, about 9 percent. Blacks make up about 13 percent of the country’s population.

But Rama Yade, the Senegal-born state secretary for human rights, called herself “a painful exception” in the French government, despite President Nicolas Sarkozy’s appointment of three prominent black or Muslim women to his government. As for the political elite’s embrace of Mr. Obama, she said, “The enthusiasm they express toward this far-away American, they don’t have it for the minorities in France.”

It is not only immigrants who are pondering what Mr. Obama’s victory says about Europe. France’s defense minister, Hervé Morin, called the Obama victory “a lesson” for a French democracy late to adopt integration.

“In this election, the Americans not only chose a president, but also their identity,” said Dominique Moïsi, a French political analyst. “And now we have to think, too, about our identity in France — it’s the most challenging election ever. We realize we are late, and America has regained the torch of a moral revolution.”

In Italy, Jean-Léonard Touadi, the only black member of the Italian Parliament, sees the Obama victory similarly. It is “a great and concrete provocation to European society and European politics,” said Mr. Touadi, born in the Congo Republic. Mr. Obama gives hope, he said, that “one day” there can be a similar outcome in Europe.

But not soon. Hossain Moazzem, a Bangladeshi waiter at L’Insalata Ricca restaurant, said he hoped Mr. Obama’s victory would foster “change all over the world.” But Italy, he said, had a “long, long” way to go.

In Britain, too, there was skepticism. Trevor Phillips, the black chairman of the independent Equality and Human Rights Commission, said that the political system held immigrants back. “If Barack Obama had lived here, I would be very surprised if even somebody as brilliant as him would have been able to break through the institutional stranglehold that there is on power,” he told The Times of London.

Britain has several minority ministers below cabinet rank, but just 15 nonwhites in the 646-member House of Commons. The parliamentary system makes it harder for a young person or an outsider to emerge.

“In Britain, you can’t make a brilliant speech and get noticed the way Barack Obama did,” Sadiq Khan, a Labor minister, told The Guardian. “You have to rise up through the ranks in Parliament.”

But Ashok Viswanathan, assistant director of Operation Black Vote, which works to engage members of minorities in politics, predicted that Britain could have a party leader from a minority in the next 10 to 15 years, and a minority member as prime minister in 30.

“If someone said two years ago that there would be a black president, most people would have laughed that person out of town,” he said. “The very nature of aspiration is when barriers are broken, whether in flying to the moon or being the first black person around a cabinet table — it’s something that nobody believes will happen.”

[WoodstockAimee]

Can SOMEONE please fix Obama's name already?

[brettfavrey]

Originally Posted by thestand

I believe brettfavrey has used "the affirmative action candidate" a handful of times, as well.

EDIT: To wrap the conversations together, who is for affirmative action? Michael Steele. :lol

no i didn't i just said his race is a net positive for him not a negative..

[chr35919]

http://www.grassfire.org/111/petition.asp?pid=18719727


:lol

[funktabulous]

Originally Posted by chr35919

http://www.grassfire.org/111/petition.asp?pid=18719727


:lol

Christ, that's fucking retarded. It actually kinda makes me feel sorry for people like that...

[NextMovement41]

Originally Posted by chr35919

http://www.grassfire.org/111/petition.asp?pid=18719727


:lol

bunch of sore losers

[chr35919]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/...rat_parody.jpg


http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures...ing--25322.jpg

[ShotgunDMB]

Fred Thompson for RNC?
http://www.dnj.com/article/20081112/...12009/1002/rss

[Beebz]

Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB

You won't get me to defend George W. Bush on spending. I'm a fan of the man for one reason: the war on terrorism, and his guts on taking on radical islam.

"Compassionate conservatism" is a fancy name for liberalism. GW Bush is not a true conservative, that's for sure.

That said, he's nothing compared with what's about to come.

Blaming GW Bush for our economic problems is a bit short sighted, IMO. A lot of the blame can be spread around, especially to his predecessor.

First off, it takes zero amount of guts to take on terrorists who attack you when the entire world thinks its the right thing to do. Absolutely none.

And he has so bungled the "war on terror" that it will be used as an example on how not to conduct a military campaign in every school from West Point to Compton Community College for the next 100 years. The only thing we can hope to gain from Bush's horribly mismanaged war is the knowledge of what not to do anymore.

If you can give me an example of anything he's done right since invading Iraq (and dont say removing Saddam Hussein--that did not require an invasion) and completely ignoring Afghanistan, I'm all ears. Until then, we'll chalk that up to blatant partisan rhetoric.

[Crazy#41]

Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB

the war on terrorism, and his guts on taking on radical islam.

Terrorism is Americans fault; There I said it.

All the War on Terror is doin' is creating more "Terrorists"...
A blind man can see this shit.

Stop intervening in other countries gov't to benefit your own agenda.
I can name atleast 10 countries and from what I hear, there are upwards of 100 they have intervened with.

[ShotgunDMB]

Originally Posted by Crazy#41

Terrorism is Americans fault; There I said it.

All the War on Terror is doin' is creating more "Terrorists"...
A blind man can see this shit.

Stop intervening in other countries gov't to benefit your own agenda.
I can name atleast 10 countries and from what I hear, there are upwards of 100 they have intervened with.

No, it's not.

It's not that you're ignorant, it's just that you know so many things that aren't so. :)

I don't blame you, I blame your insanity.

[ShotgunDMB]

Originally Posted by bbianca1982

First off, it takes zero amount of guts to take on terrorists who attack you when the entire world thinks its the right thing to do. Absolutely none.

And he has so bungled the "war on terror" that it will be used as an example on how not to conduct a military campaign in every school from West Point to Compton Community College for the next 100 years. The only thing we can hope to gain from Bush's horribly mismanaged war is the knowledge of what not to do anymore.

If you can give me an example of anything he's done right since invading Iraq (and dont say removing Saddam Hussein--that did not require an invasion) and completely ignoring Afghanistan, I'm all ears. Until then, we'll chalk that up to blatant partisan rhetoric.

9/11 wasn't the 1st time we've been attacked by radical islamists. So, obviously Bush had much more guts and resolve than any of his predecessors.

He hasn't bungled the war on terror. That's beyond ridiculous. Zero attacks on our soil since 9/11. Pro American country in the middle east. Al Qaeda's chain of command has been shaken up. They're stuck in the hills of Afganistan.

[neumdogg]

Maybe this has been posted, but here it is again:

http://www.theonion.com/content/vide...rce=EMTF_Onion

[Beebz]

Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB

9/11 wasn't the 1st time we've been attacked by radical islamists. So, obviously Bush had much more guts and resolve than any of his predecessors.

He hasn't bungled the war on terror. That's beyond ridiculous. Zero attacks on our soil since 9/11. Pro American country in the middle east. Al Qaeda's chain of command has been shaken up. They're stuck in the hills of Afganistan.

If you want to use that logic, there werent any attacks on our soil before 9/11. You can count the first world trade center bombing if you want, but that was a half-assed attempt with no organization or planning that was snuffed out before it got really dangerous. To look at it another way, the only major islamic terrorist attack in this nation's history occured on Bush's watch.

What pro-American country do we have in the middle east? Great, we spend a trillion dollars, 4,000 American lives, and countless Iraqi lives to shake up Al-Qaeda's leadership. It's not gone, and they're rebuilding in Afghanistan AND Iraq because we couldnt get our shit together in either place.

The real way to look at this is, are we safer now than we were before 2000? The answer is unquestionably, "no." Iran hates us, terror cells are growing in Iraq because of our involvement there, the Taliban and Al-Qaeda are nearly back to full strength in Afghanistan, and, because of our attention, both financially and politcially, has been focused on the Middle East, America is rapidly becoming a mess.

And no, terrorism is not our fault.

[jiggajm18]

Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB

Fred Thompson for RNC?
http://www.dnj.com/article/20081112/...12009/1002/rss

good, he can further run the republican party into the ground.

you want someone running your party who, 2 weeks before the economic crisis first hit, implied that the economy was fine? :lol

[GOB_]

Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB

9/11 wasn't the 1st time we've been attacked by radical islamists. So, obviously Bush had much more guts and resolve than any of his predecessors.

Except Bush did very little to hunt down these radical islamists prior to 9-11. Now granted, it happened 9 months into his presidency but we really have no idea what his policies would have been like had 9-11 never happened or if it had happened later

I will say that I am extremely thankful that we have not experienced any further attacks in our country.

[ShotgunDMB]

Originally Posted by bbianca1982

If you want to use that logic, there werent any attacks on our soil before 9/11. You can count the first world trade center bombing if you want, but that was a half-assed attempt with no organization or planning that was snuffed out before it got really dangerous. To look at it another way, the only major islamic terrorist attack in this nation's history occured on Bush's watch.

What pro-American country do we have in the middle east? Great, we spend a trillion dollars, 4,000 American lives, and countless Iraqi lives to shake up Al-Qaeda's leadership. It's not gone, and they're rebuilding in Afghanistan AND Iraq because we couldnt get our shit together in either place.

The real way to look at this is, are we safer now than we were before 2000? The answer is unquestionably, "no." Iran hates us, terror cells are growing in Iraq because of our involvement there, the Taliban and Al-Qaeda are nearly back to full strength in Afghanistan, and, because of our attention, both financially and politcially, has been focused on the Middle East, America is rapidly becoming a mess.

And no, terrorism is not our fault.

Certainly you aren't implying Iranian hostility towards to the U.S.A. is new? Pick up a book sometime.

[DMBisTBOWA]

Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB

Certainly you aren't implying Iranian hostility towards to the U.S.A. is new? Pick up a book sometime.

Any idea when that hostility began?

[Beebz]

Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB

Certainly you aren't implying Iranian hostility towards to the U.S.A. is new? Pick up a book sometime.

Im saying Bush exacerbated the problem tenfold. Iran has hated us for a couple decades now, but not to the point that they would consider doing anything to us. Now they are. Not to mention the fact that they're arming and financing the insurgents who are killing our troops. If we were going to invade anyone for dubious reasons, it should have been Iran.

And you didnt address a single one of my other points. Just admit it--Bush fucked up. It's OK to say, therapeutic even. Bush fucked up.

Bush
Fucked
Up

(BFU)

[HoldemHart]

Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB

Fred Thompson for RNC?
http://www.dnj.com/article/20081112/...12009/1002/rss

Hopefully he runs the RNC like he ran his campaign, full of zest and vigor.

[dmbinchicago]

Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB

Fred Thompson for RNC?
http://www.dnj.com/article/20081112/...12009/1002/rss

That would be awful for the GOP.

[jiggajm18]

Originally Posted by dmbinchicago

That would be awful for the GOP.

:thumbsup

2 weeks before lehman, AIG and merrill collapsed, he said something along the lines of "with the way liberals talk about the economy, you'd think it was the great depression".

:lol

how little he knew......

:lol