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Old 06-13-2009, 12:38 PM   #421
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Re: BWGK on Vinyl

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inter View Post
One last thing. The reason most people say vinyl is "warmer" or "more lush" or whatever, is usually because when you deal with analog sound, the signal has never passed into the digital domain.
Or they could be using a cartridge that has an unnatural EQ bump somewhere in the lower end, like I found the M97xE did.
Quote:
Phew ok. The last last thing. Suppose you have a vinyl edition of Big Whisky. If they pressed the digital version of the master on the vinyl, the instruments will sound unnatural and harsh (ie, the same as the CD version).
Well they probably recorded in 24/96 or /192 so best case scenario is they took that master and made the vinyl from it. Then it won't sound all that bad and you've still got the sonic edge on the CD. If they just took the CD and essentially ran it through a lathe then yuck. I'm starting to like the CD version a lot less every time I listen to it now.

Last edited by Millstone; 06-13-2009 at 12:39 PM.
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  • Old 06-13-2009, 05:44 PM   #422
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Millstone... sent out that extra vinyl #27 in the mail yesterday, I sent it out 1st class mail from Bellevue, WA. so maybe you should have it in a week I am guessing?
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    Old 06-13-2009, 10:05 PM   #423
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Stouggies View Post
    Millstone... sent out that extra vinyl #27 in the mail yesterday, I sent it out 1st class mail from Bellevue, WA. so maybe you should have it in a week I am guessing?
    Mail coming into Canada has to go through the 7th circle of hell (customs) so it may very well be 2-3 weeks, but I will keep checking, thanks

    On another note...

    I decided to bust open the copy of BTCS after the winning bidder clearly had no intent to pay. Vinyl is meant to be enjoyed, right? Well I think I may rescind the "mastered from CD" comment I made a while ago as there does appear to be some detail audible that isn't in the CD, now that I am listening to a virgin copy with a more neutral cart. The shrillness of the CD is still in the vinyl though.

    I plan on doing a crude needledrop of a few tracks given the equipment I already have... Yamaha RX-397 receiver (half decent) to bring everything to line level and feed it through my Auzen X-Fi.
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    Old 06-14-2009, 12:53 AM   #424
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Alright I dropped a few BTCS tracks into Cool Edit and A/Bed between them to see what I could find. That is, tracks on the vinyl recorded at 24/96 and the CD.

    There doesn't seem to be a hell of a lot of difference at first glance. On the CD, tracks like Stay and Rapunzel are gently brickwalled enough to be 'loud' but not enough to cause audible clipping. A square wave won't show up on vinyl because it's not possible, so the best you'll get are some approximations of square waves.

    On The Dreaming Tree, it would appear, barring any mechanical or technical fault of the software or anything else, that the compression is less on the LP than on the CD. In the final chorus leading up to and following "the dreaming tree has died..." where Tim really wails and bends that one note over and over, there are stray transients present at different levels that seem to be all compressed to one level on the CD.

    So anyway, the lesson here is to just enjoy the damn music.
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    Old 06-14-2009, 05:34 PM   #425
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Does anybody have any idea how many BWGGK 45's were pressed?
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    Old 06-14-2009, 07:02 PM   #426
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jek3295 View Post
    Does anybody have any idea how many BWGGK 45's were pressed?
    I've heard large ranges.

    Going all the way up to 20,000.

    Probably all assumptions though.
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    Old 06-15-2009, 10:04 AM   #427
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    I would think around 20,000 copies of the album, but I'd be very surprised if they printed that many copies of the 45.
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    Old 06-15-2009, 02:46 PM   #428
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    I just noticed yesterday in the scenes from big whiskey deal that there's a part where they are playing Why I Am (i think) and they show a shot of analog tape spinning. It made me wonder if this wasn't all done digitally.
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    Old 06-15-2009, 03:05 PM   #429
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jek3295 View Post
    Does anybody have any idea how many BWGGK 45's were pressed?
    45's ???? Do I miss something ?? My double album is a 33....
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    Old 06-15-2009, 03:27 PM   #430
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    There was a 45 (7") of Funny the Way It Is issues with #27 as a B side. They were issued to be given away with the purchase of the album at select record stores.
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    Old 06-15-2009, 04:37 PM   #431
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trautwein.m View Post
    I just noticed yesterday in the scenes from big whiskey deal that there's a part where they are playing Why I Am (i think) and they show a shot of analog tape spinning. It made me wonder if this wasn't all done digitally.
    That's encouraging news, yet I believe you can record on tape digitally. If you look at the BTCS documentary on YouTube you'll see a spinning "SONY DIGITAL" reel for a second (which may have just been file footage).
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    Old 06-15-2009, 06:00 PM   #432
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    There is nothing wrong with digital as long as it's high resolution.
    The advancements in digital recording over the last 15 years have been awesome, even though it hasn't reached 99% of the population.
    DSD, DXD, 24/192 PCM, these are WAYYYY beyond anything human perception could use to differenciate from 30ips analog tape, believe me.

    BWGK definitely came from either an analog source or a high resolution digital source. The listening experience is far superior to the CD.
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    Old 06-17-2009, 11:18 PM   #433
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    My copy finally came and it is apparent it's cut from something higher-rez than the CD, be it tape or digital source.
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    Old 06-18-2009, 12:35 AM   #434
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    i just found out my best friend's father has it on Vynl, and on a sweet ass stereo system. Can't wait to get together and listen to it.
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    Old 06-19-2009, 02:37 PM   #435
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

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    Originally Posted by AndySlash View Post
    Played the vinyl yesterday. Got to Squirm on Side C and all of the sudden it starts popping and then skipping. I look at the record and there is a scratch across the grooves for most of the track. This aint a normal scratch, though- it's a fucking etching error of some sort, like the etcher suddenly suffered a heart attack and the arm jerked all over. Argh. I'll take a picture of it if I can, because it really needs to be seen.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cswright View Post
    I came in here looking for this...... Sigh mine does it across all of disc C
    After being out of town for a couple weeks now, I'm finally mailing it back to MusicToday (I preordered from the DMB store), so hopefully that goes smoothly; I've never had to exchange anything before. You asked who you should contact- if you bought it at a store, then definitely go there and exchange it- no need to call MT if you didn't use them.

    Shitty as it is for us, it's always comforting knowing other people have similar problems.
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    Old 06-19-2009, 02:40 PM   #436
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    i really hope they release the whole catalog on vinyl. it kills me to know people have BTCS wrapped in plastic somewhere. I would listen to that every single day.
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    Old 06-20-2009, 02:23 AM   #437
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trautwein.m View Post
    i really hope they release the whole catalog on vinyl. it kills me to know people have BTCS wrapped in plastic somewhere. I would listen to that every single day.
    Don't worry, I do.
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    Old 06-20-2009, 01:15 PM   #438
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post
    I had put together some information on turntables and phono preamps for a fellow poster so I thought I'd share the info here in case anyone finds it useful:

    Turntables –
    1) entry-level @ $350

    Goldring GR-1.2 - $350 - http://www.audiophileboutique.com/Goldring.html
    Comes with a Goldring Elektra cartridge which puts it above most of the other TT’s here, the table, tonearm, plinth and platter are all made by Rega and are no longer made as they were too much value and stealing business.
    Rega P1 - $395 - http://www.musicdirect.com/product/74202
    Music Hall MMF 2.1 - $350 - http://www.lptunes.com/product-p/mmf21.htm
    Pro-Ject Debut III - $349 - http://www.needledoctor.com/Pro-Ject...2&category=352
    The Pro-Ject and Rega both come with the Ortofon 5e cartridge, a good cartridge, but not quite as good as the Goldring. Most people would upgrade to the Ortofon Red cartridge which is around $99.

    2) Intermediate level @ $700~$1000
    Goldring GR-2 – US$600 – http://www.audiophileboutique.com/Goldring.html
    The Goldring GR-2 comes with the awesome Goldring 1012GX cartridge which sells separately for around US$300. Truly the stylus is what makes this turntable special, it’s the one I own. The rest of the table is similar to the Rega P2 and made by Rega.
    Rega P3 Mk24 - $1,024 - http://www.musicdirect.com/product/72034
    Comes with the Rega Elys cartridge, sells for $895 sans cartridge. Cartridge = $295. The new Rega P3-24 has some really nice upgrades over previous years including a wider bearing for lower rumble and an improved motor and platter.
    Pro-Ject RM5 - $999 - http://www.musicdirect.com/product/80839
    Comes with the very nice Sumiko Blue Point cartridge, sweet table and sounds as good as it looks. Pro-Ject are fairly new to the TT game compared to some others listed here, but they’ve definitely produced some fantastic products and have quickly become one of the top sellers.
    Music Hall MMF5 - $629 - http://www.lptunes.com/product-p/mmf50.htm
    I don’t know how it’s priced so low, but including the same Goldring 1012GX cartridge and a glass platter this is hard to beat within this price range.
    Music Hall MMF5.1 - $875 - http://www.needledoctor.com/Music-Ha...2&category=351
    Includes the Goldring GL-2200 cartridge and upgrades to bearings, tonearm, etc., over the MMF5.

    3) Advanced level @ $1,000~$2,000
    Music Hall MMF 7.1 – US$1,500 - http://www.needledoctor.com/Music-Ha...2&category=351
    Comes with the Goldring GL-2400 MM cartridge.
    Rega P5 - $1,400 - http://www.needledoctor.com/Rega-P5-...2&category=353
    With the Rega RB700 tonearm, 12mm glass platter
    Clearaudio Emotion - $2,000 - http://www.needledoctor.com/Clearaud...2&category=347
    Comes with the $1,000 Clearaudio Maestro cartridge – Clearaudio are in the top names in the TT business, this is pretty much their entry-level table.
    VPI Scout - $1,800 - http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo....mber=HW-SCOUT9
    Another big player, the VPI Scout is VPI’s most successful turntable.
    Pro-Ject RM-9 - $1,949 - http://www.needledoctor.com/Pro-Ject...2&category=352
    Comes with the Sumiko Blue Point #2 at this price, upgrade to Blue Point Special for $100 more


    Phono Preamp –
    1) entry-level sub$200

    Parasound Zphono - $150 - http://store.acousticsounds.com/brow...Title_ID=14948
    Rega Mini Fono - $145 - http://www.needledoctor.com/Rega-Fon...2&category=401
    Music Hall PA1.2 - $150 - http://www.musicdirect.com/product/84099
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKii - $159 - http://store.acousticsounds.com/brow...Title_ID=13112
    Cambridge Audio 640p - $179 - http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CA640P
    Goldring PA1 - $199 - http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MHGRPA1

    2) Intermediate Level $200~$450
    Pro-Ject Phono Box SE - $329 - http://store.acousticsounds.com/brow...Title_ID=41773
    Rega Fono - $350 - http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...umber=REFONOMM
    Clearaudio Nano - $349 - http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CLEANANO
    Graham Slee Gram Amp 2SE - $410 - http://www.lptunes.com/Graham-Slee-G...mp-p/ga2pp.htm
    The Graham is probably the best one at this level
    Creek OBH-15 - $449 - http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=OBH-15

    3) Advanced Level $500~$1000
    Clearaudio Basic Plus - $900 - http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CLEABASS
    PS Audio GCPH - $1,000 - http://www.musicdirect.com/product/74122
    Pro-Ject Tube Box SEII - $700 - http://store.acousticsounds.com/brow...Title_ID=41770
    Grado PH1 - $500 - http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=GRPH1

    Of course there are more levels than this and I don't just mean the ridiculous $300,000 turntables, but if anyone was looking for turntables in the $3,000~$5,000 or more I'd be happy to recommend some of those too, but I imagine most of our members here would be somewhere in this range.

    Cheers!
    Just thought I'd bump this post as I've had quite a few PM's regarding vinyl suggestions. This isn't a do or die list, but I think most vinyl fans will agree it's a pretty decent reference point.
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    Old 06-22-2009, 11:52 AM   #439
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    I just received confirmation via e-mail from one of the project managers at Sterling Sound on behalf of Ted Jensen that the vinyl for BWGK was mastered at 24-bit.

    This would confirm what many of us already knew from our own ears.
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    Old 06-22-2009, 02:12 PM   #440
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post
    I just received confirmation via e-mail from one of the project managers at Sterling Sound on behalf of Ted Jensen that the vinyl for BWGK was mastered at 24-bit.

    This would confirm what many of us already knew from our own ears.
    Can you email them back about BTCS, I can't get a hold of anyone there.
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    Old 06-22-2009, 04:16 PM   #441
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Millstone View Post
    Can you email them back about BTCS, I can't get a hold of anyone there.
    Do the liner notes in the vinyl show that Sterling Sound did the mastering for BTCS also? I know Jensen did the CD.
    I don't know if they'll be bothered to look up an 11-year old 1,000~5,000 pressing.
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    Old 06-22-2009, 05:03 PM   #442
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Nevermind, I went ahead and asked anyway.
    She said she can't help with any information on BTCS.
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    Old 06-22-2009, 05:27 PM   #443
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post
    Do the liner notes in the vinyl show that Sterling Sound did the mastering for BTCS also? I know Jensen did the CD.
    I don't know if they'll be bothered to look up an 11-year old 1,000~5,000 pressing.
    yes the stamp in the leadout says STERLING like BW and the liner notes.

    shame they don't have that information.
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    Old 06-22-2009, 05:28 PM   #444
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Also I meant to mention I am quite surprised on how quiet the surface is of the BW vinyl.
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    Old 06-22-2009, 06:14 PM   #445
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Millstone View Post
    Also I meant to mention I am quite surprised on how quiet the surface is of the BW vinyl.


    Me too, that's not often the case on recent US pressings.
    This sounds like an EU/UK pressing. I've actually gone out of my way to try and order UK pressings or German/Dutch pressings of albums I like from the 90's whenever possible.
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    Old 06-22-2009, 09:39 PM   #446
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post


    Me too, that's not often the case on recent US pressings.
    This sounds like an EU/UK pressing. I've actually gone out of my way to try and order UK pressings or German/Dutch pressings of albums I like from the 90's whenever possible.
    Hmm, I have not found this with my copy. Now, I haven't cleaned it but there is definitely some noise, more than a lot of my other more high quality new releases on vinyl. However, the quality of sound is better than some of my other stuff, even though the production on this album is less than stellar in my opinion.
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    Old 06-23-2009, 12:01 AM   #447
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Does anybody else's record have the stickers switched for side's 2 & 3?
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    Old 06-23-2009, 12:05 AM   #448
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kbail1230 View Post
    Does anybody else's record have the stickers switched for side's 2 & 3?
    no please tell us more
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    Old 06-23-2009, 12:28 AM   #449
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kbail1230 View Post
    Does anybody else's record have the stickers switched for side's 2 & 3?

    http://antsmarching.org/forum/showpo...&postcount=251
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    Old 06-23-2009, 12:30 AM   #450
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    Re: BWGK on Vinyl

    Quote:
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    Weird.
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