Official Superman: Man of Steel (2012) Thread

[junior94]

Originally Posted by sgtpeppr

Good call.

Yea I mean I even feel like Jude Law and Terrence Stamp have sort of the same overall facial structure, just throw a beard on Jude and you've got the younger version

[junior94]

Originally Posted by sgtpeppr

I just left there to come out here.

No way, seriously? For me it was to get my film career started, what's your deal?

[sgtpeppr]

Originally Posted by junior94

Also, the issue of how Superman "hides" in plain sight as Clark. I'm sorry, but even with Lois coming to full realization of it in Part 2, the fact that she doesn't realize they're one in the same like pretty much as soon as she first meets Clarke, it makes her look like an idiot, because it's the most obvious thing in the world.


Thing is, I thought I remembering hearing a long time ago that part of the original canon was that Superman had the power to emit this sort of ray from his eyes at all times, so that when he was Clarke, he could basically put a "spell" on people for them not to realize what's otherwise the obvious that it's Superman with glasses and a dorky haircut. But I've yet to be able to hear this from anyone else yet

I agree about Lois, being the strong reporter she is, she would figure it out quickly... but obviously for dramitic purposes, it can't be immediately.

I like the idea of the ray, but it would be better suited for him to use as Superman. He is Clark Kent, Superman is just a persona he made up. He is a hero because of how his parents, the Kents, raised him.

[sgtpeppr]

same.

[javierm27]

Originally Posted by junior94

Also, the issue of how Superman "hides" in plain sight as Clark. I'm sorry, but even with Lois coming to full realization of it in Part 2, the fact that she doesn't realize they're one in the same like pretty much as soon as she first meets Clarke, it makes her look like an idiot, because it's the most obvious thing in the world.


Thing is, I thought I remembering hearing a long time ago that part of the original canon was that Superman had the power to emit this sort of ray from his eyes at all times, so that when he was Clarke, he could basically put a "spell" on people for them not to realize what's otherwise the obvious that it's Superman with glasses and a dorky haircut. But I've yet to be able to hear this from anyone else yet

I remember hearing about that somewhere too, but I don't remember where. I am going to look into it though, since I am now intrigued by it, .

[reddman1000]

Originally Posted by sgtpeppr

I agree about Lois, being the strong reporter she is, she would figure it out quickly... but obviously for dramitic purposes, it can't be immediately.

I like the idea of the ray, but it would be better suited for him to use as Superman. He is Clark Kent, Superman is just a persona he made up. He is a hero because of how his parents, the Kents, raised him.

Actually it's the other way around. He is Kal-El of the planet Krypton and made up Clark Kent.

His secret identity is more than just the glasses. It's the entire way he carries himeslf. He slouches, wears clothes 2 sizes too big, and acts meek and nothing like The Champion of Earth. The point is meant to be that no one would EVER think that Clark is Superman.

I've never heard about some magic trick ray but who knows.

And as for Zod rumors, not my first choice (Darkseid) or second (Braniac) but as long as it's not Lex I think it'll be sweet.

[javierm27]

Originally Posted by sgtpeppr

I agree about Lois, being the strong reporter she is, she would figure it out quickly... but obviously for dramitic purposes, it can't be immediately.

I like the idea of the ray, but it would be better suited for him to use as Superman. He is Clark Kent, Superman is just a persona he made up. He is a hero because of how his parents, the Kents, raised him.

Originally Posted by reddman1000

Actually it's the other way around. He is Kal-El of the planet Krypton and made up Clark Kent.

His secret identity is more than just the glasses. It's the entire way he carries himeslf. He slouches, wears clothes 2 sizes too big, and acts meek and nothing like The Champion of Earth. The point is meant to be that no one would EVER think that Clark is Superman.

I've never heard about some magic trick ray but who knows.

And as for Zod rumors, not my first choice (Darkseid) or second (Braniac) but as long as it's not Lex I think it'll be sweet.

I will post what I originally had up on the first page. This is from Kill Bill.

Bill: As you know, l'm quite keen on comic books. Especially the ones about superheroes. I find the whole mythology surrounding superheroes fascinating. Take my favorite superhero, Superman. Not a great comic book. Not particularly well-drawn. But the mythology... The mythology is not only great, it's unique.
The Bride: [who still has a needle in her leg] How long does this shit take to go into effect?
Bill: About two minutes, just long enough for me to finish my point. Now, a staple of the superhero mythology is, there's the superhero and there's the alter ego. Batman is actually Bruce Wayne, Spider-Man is actually Peter Parker. When that character wakes up in the morning, he's Peter Parker. He has to put on a costume to become Spider-Man. And it is in that characteristic Superman stands alone. Superman didn't become Superman. Superman was born Superman. When Superman wakes up in the morning, he's Superman. His alter ego is Clark Kent. His outfit with the big red "S", that's the blanket he was wrapped in as a baby when the Kents found him. Those are his clothes. What Kent wears - the glasses, the business suit - that's the costume. That's the costume Superman wears to blend in with us. Clark Kent is how Superman views us. And what are the characteristics of Clark Kent. He's weak... he's unsure of himself... he's a coward. Clark Kent is Superman's critique on the whole human race. Sorta like Beatrix Kiddo and Mrs. Tommy Plimpton.

[sgtpeppr]

Originally Posted by reddman1000

Actually it's the other way around. He is Kal-El of the planet Krypton and made up Clark Kent.

They're wrong... think about it logically. How do children evolve? He doesn't know he is from another planet. Just because you are born with his abilities, doesn't automatically make you a hero, much less one with a defined persona already. We are who we are most because of the experience we go through in life, how we are raised. So his overall personality, the one he has be living all his life, is Clark Kent. He is only ever Superman for a couple mins a day. Doesn't it see silly that someone with all that confidence would "pretend" to someone who is "lesser" (for lack of a appropriate term) man. Superman is just a public persona created to separate him from everyone so that he does not endanger the ones he loves.

And this idea has been explored in different incarnations in the canon, but I don't quite think they put as much thought into it as I do.

[Haiku Jimi]

Originally Posted by sgtpeppr

They're wrong... think about it logically. How do children evolve? He doesn't know he is from another planet. Just because you are born with his abilities, doesn't automatically make you a hero, much less one with a defined persona already. We are who we are most because of the experience we go through in life, how we are raised. So his overall personality, the one he has be living all his life, is Clark Kent. He is only ever Superman for a couple mins a day. Doesn't it see silly that someone with all that confidence would "pretend" to someone who is "lesser" (for lack of a appropriate term) man. Superman is just a public persona created to separate him from everyone so that he does not endanger the ones he loves.

And this idea has been explored in different incarnations in the canon, but I don't quite think they put as much thought into it as I do.

Sure he does. But you're right - he didn't know it from birth. So he is very much a product of his upbringing by the Kents, I agree.

However, I still think Clark Kent is a bit of a disguise. I mean, come on, he's not really this clumsy Daily Planet office worker, knocking things over and being awkward.

[sgtpeppr]

Originally Posted by Haiku Jimi

Sure he does. But you're right - he didn't know it from birth. So he is very much a product of his upbringing by the Kents, I agree.

However, I still think Clark Kent is a bit of a disguise. I mean, come on, he's not really this clumsy Daily Planet office worker, knocking things over and being awkward.

I know he eventually finds out... aww you know what I meant.

Sure, once he finds the need for Superman, he may exaggerate his Clark persona a little, but I think the clumsiness is just him having fun.

[reddman1000]

Originally Posted by sgtpeppr

They're wrong... think about it logically. How do children evolve? He doesn't know he is from another planet. Just because you are born with his abilities, doesn't automatically make you a hero, much less one with a defined persona already. We are who we are most because of the experience we go through in life, how we are raised. So his overall personality, the one he has be living all his life, is Clark Kent. He is only ever Superman for a couple mins a day. Doesn't it see silly that someone with all that confidence would "pretend" to someone who is "lesser" (for lack of a appropriate term) man. Superman is just a public persona created to separate him from everyone so that he does not endanger the ones he loves.

And this idea has been explored in different incarnations in the canon, but I don't quite think they put as much thought into it as I do.

He was raised as Clark Kent but even the Kents knew he was not human.

If he did nothing to restrain himself, he would be flying around and using super strength and other powers like it's no big deal, like a kryptonian would. He chooses to disguise himself as a lesser (perfect term, we are less than him) human being. He could easily be Superman 24 hours a day, its more natural to him. But he chooses to create a secret identity so that the ones he loves are not in constant jeopardy.

[javierm27]

Originally Posted by reddman1000

He was raised as Clark Kent but even the Kents knew he was not human.

If he did nothing to restrain himself, he would be flying around and using super strength and other powers like it's no big deal, like a kryptonian would. He chooses to disguise himself as a lesser (perfect term, we are less than him) human being. He could easily be Superman 24 hours a day, its more natural to him. But he chooses to create a secret identity so that the ones he loves are not in constant jeopardy.

Agreed.

[sgtpeppr]

Originally Posted by reddman1000

He was raised as Clark Kent but even the Kents knew he was not human.

Clearly the Kents know he is from another planet, clearly at some point they tell him.

If he did nothing to restrain himself, he would be flying around and using super strength and other powers like it's no big deal, like a kryptonian would.
He chooses to disguise himself as a lesser (perfect term, we are less than him) human being. He could easily be Superman 24 hours a day, its more natural to him. But he chooses to create a secret identity so that the ones he loves are not in constant jeopardy.

You make it seem as if he has no choice but to be Superman and that he has to suppress who he is 99% of the time. That would literally drive anyone insane. He was brought up just like any other being on this planet, his body just happens to be able to do things the rest of us can not. And really, what would there be for him to do if he were Superman all the time... after a while he would need to create stuff for himself to do. You even use the phrase "like a kryptonian would," implying to me he is not technically a Kryptonian since he is able to restrain himself. Which must mean he is able to restrain himself because of his upbringing here on earth... which must mean he is an earthling... you got it, the earthling in the equation is Clark Kent. Just because you are born somewhere, doesn't make it define who you are.

He doesn't have to be Superman... actually he doesn't have to be anyone, but the person he is is going to be closer to the person who spent most of his life on that farm being raised by the Kents, who may not be his biological parents, but they are his real parents. They helped mold the personality and develop the consciousness of a being who happened to want to try to help people, therefore prompting the need for the persona of Superman.

[reddman1000]

We're getting into sort of a nature vs nurture debate here. I'm not saying he has no choice but to be superman, I'm saying he has no choice but to be Kryptonian. If he wasn't restraining himself, instead of walking down the street, he would fly. Instead of crawling under his desk to retrieve a dropped pencil, he would pick up the desk no problem and grab it. Being born on Krypton absolutely defines who he is. If he was born on earth he wouldn't have super powers. He is certainly not an earthling. He is an alien living on earth. Clark Kent is PART of his identity, but he is Kal-El of Krypton. There is no arguing that point. It is a fact.

My "Like a kryptonian would" comment was in reference to his secret identity. He is naturally able to fly etc. So its part of his secret identity that he doesn't.

[sgtpeppr]

Originally Posted by reddman1000

We're getting into sort of a nature vs nurture debate here. I'm not saying he has no choice but to be superman, I'm saying he has no choice but to be Kryptonian. If he wasn't restraining himself, instead of walking down the street, he would fly. Instead of crawling under his desk to retrieve a dropped pencil, he would pick up the desk no problem and grab it.

I'm sure he does stuff like this if there is no one around.

Being born on Krypton absolutely defines who he is. If he was born on earth he wouldn't have super powers. He is certainly not an earthling. He is an alien living on earth. Clark Kent is PART of his identity, but he is Kal-El of Krypton. There is no arguing that point. It is a fact.

My "Like a kryptonian would" comment was in reference to his secret identity. He is naturally able to fly etc. So its part of his secret identity that he doesn't.

Being born on krypton only defines the biology of his body, it has nothing to do with who he is as a person, as a soul. Being Kryptonian defines his physical traits, it doesn't define his character, his ethics, his thought process, his consciousness. He is not naturally able to fly. His flying comes about through sheer will and the fact that his Kryptonian body is able to take advantage of earth's limited gravity. If Kryptonians were naturally about to fly, they would be able to do it in any environment, not just in the presence of the radiation of a yellow sun. I know there have been instances in the canon where kryptonians did fly on their home planet, but that was very short lived, and it is generally accepted that Superman get's his powers because of Earth's yellow sun. Meaning no yellow sun, no Superman.

[junior94]

Okay now that I'm done with watching Superman 2..... are you fucking kidding me? BOTH movies finish with him flying around the world to reverse time??

How in the love of god did these things come to be considered modern classics?? They're a fucking joke! Hell I think Superman Returns might very well in fact be the best film in the whole series.

[reddman1000]

ok but none of the things you said change the fact that he is superman (kal.. whatever you want to call him) first and Clark Kent is the secret identity.

[sgtpeppr]

Originally Posted by junior94

Okay now that I'm done with watching Superman 2..... are you fucking kidding me? BOTH movies finish with him flying around the world to reverse time??

How in the love of god did these things come to be considered modern classics?? They're a fucking joke! Hell I think Superman Returns might very well in fact be the best film in the whole series.

Well in Lesters version, I don't think he does the reverse time trick... which is really stupid to begin with.

I have no idea either. Superman I did have some redeeming qualities in the first half... but from there on, it has sucked. Unfortunately, due to the high production quality and visual appeal of Singer's big turd, I might almost have to agree.

[sgtpeppr]

Originally Posted by reddman1000

ok but none of the things you said change the fact that he is superman (kal.. whatever you want to call him) first and Clark Kent is the secret identity.

Wow... thanks for that convincing argument.

[junior94]

Originally Posted by sgtpeppr

Well in Lesters version, I don't think he does the reverse time trick... which is really stupid to begin with.

I have no idea either. Superman I did have some redeeming qualities in the first half... but from there on, it has sucked. Unfortunately, due to the high production quality and visual appeal of Singer's big turd, I might almost have to agree.

Yea actually hang on, now I do realize I remember seeing a particular bit of a scene somewhere over the years, where they're in the daily planet at the end, and I think Clark gives Lois some kind of "super kiss" that basically makes her forget that he revealed himself to her as Superman, so in the end it goes back to her being oblivious to it all. I guess that was in the original version.

which, seems more or less as stupid as what Donner did with it, so...

[sgtpeppr]

Originally Posted by reddman1000

ok but none of the things you said change the fact that he is superman (kal.. whatever you want to call him) first and Clark Kent is the secret identity.

...and if you really want to get deep, he isn't really any of those, they are just names that label him for purposes of identification.

[sgtpeppr]

Originally Posted by junior94

Yea actually hang on, now I do realize I remember seeing a particular bit of a scene somewhere over the years, where they're in the daily planet at the end, and I think Clark gives Lois some kind of "super kiss" that basically makes her forget that he revealed himself to her as Superman, so in the end it goes back to her being oblivious to it all. I guess that was in the original version.

which, seems more or less as stupid as what Donner did with it, so...

See lame from the get go. Terribly written.

[junior94]

Continuing my current Superman kick, I've been doing a rewatch of Returns. You know what might've made it more interesting? For the James Marsden character to realize that Superman was Clark (like during the 3rd act, when he rescues them in the water). Granted, it's still stupid for ANYONE not to immediately figure it out, particularly Lois, but chalking it up for now to suspension of disbelief. But for Marsden to realize it, then have Supes tell him "but please, you can't tell her", like when she was still unconscious.

[sgtpeppr]

Originally Posted by junior94

Continuing my current Superman kick, I've been doing a rewatch of Returns. You know what might've made it more interesting? For the James Marsden character to realize that Superman was Clark (like during the 3rd act, when he rescues them in the water). Granted, it's still stupid for ANYONE not to immediately figure it out, particularly Lois, but chalking it up for now to suspension of disbelief. But for Marsden to realize it, then have Supes tell him "but please, you can't tell her", like when she was still unconscious.

I like the idea, it would be a great scene, but Lois has to be the first one, she, the "top reporter," is with him the most. Unless Lois is close to figuring it out, then your idea, then Lois figures out on her own.

[javierm27]

Originally Posted by junior94

Continuing my current Superman kick, I've been doing a rewatch of Returns. You know what might've made it more interesting? For the James Marsden character to realize that Superman was Clark (like during the 3rd act, when he rescues them in the water). Granted, it's still stupid for ANYONE not to immediately figure it out, particularly Lois, but chalking it up for now to suspension of disbelief. But for Marsden to realize it, then have Supes tell him "but please, you can't tell her", like when she was still unconscious.

You know Superman Returns wasn't as bad as people made it out to be. The biggest issue with the movie was other than the kid story line, the rest of the movie wasn't really anything new. They didn't introduce any new villian, and honestly the story was similar to the original Superman movie with Lex wanting land. But I really liked what Singer did with what he had, and Brandon Routh was great in the role. I enjoyed the score as well, Ottman, made his changes to what Williams created, but they weren't excessive and yet you can differentiate between the two.

[sgtpeppr]

Originally Posted by javierm27

You know Superman Returns wasn't as bad as people made it out to be. The biggest issue with the movie was other than the kid story line, the rest of the movie wasn't really anything new. They didn't introduce any new villian, and honestly the story was similar to the original Superman movie with Lex wanting land. But I really liked what Singer did with what he had, and Brandon Routh was great in the role. I enjoyed the score as well, Ottman, made his changes to what Williams created, but they weren't excessive and yet you can differentiate between the two.

Superman Returns was Singer's homage to Donner. It was intended from the beginning of production to be Superman II.5 (2.5). They set out with the intention of just continuing the storyline and characters as Donner and Mankowitz started it. That's why it was not well received, because the original story was average and Lex's character was poor. It was visually stunning, but other than that... Singer should be ashamed. Routh was adequate simply because he basically copied Reeves.

[javierm27]

Has anyone been reading the comic books? I haven't bought one in almost 20 years, the last storyline I followed was the Death of Superman. But I have been starting to read them again, I just picked up the 6 issue Secret Origins line and picked up the Superman #700 issue. I swear I have been obsessed these past 2 weeks with Superman, I also bought the Jim Lee statues, I picked up the Full and mini size. They look pretty bad asss.

http://www.dccomics.com/dcdirect/?dcd=3557

So excited to hear about this movie coming up, in the meantime the comics and Smallville will have to do.

[junior94]

The new EW issue has the results of a poll asking fans who they'd like to see play the new Supes. Joseph Gordon-Levitt actually got 3% of the vote, that absolutely astounds me, even in that small amount. I really like JGL as an actor overall, I'd be perfectly fine seeing him as the Riddler, but holy hell is he just an awful choice to play Superman. He wouldn't have even remotely occurred to me in a hundred years.


Tom Welling - 56%
Matt Bomer ("White Collar") - 14%
Brandon Routh - 13%
Jon Hamm - 8%
Henry Cavill ("The Tudors") - 6%
JGL - 3%


and I really like Jon Hamm as an actor, I'm so happy to see him finally really getting somewhere as a serious actor, as I've talked about before I was around him when I worked for a couple months on the Lifetime series "The Division" and he couldn't have been a nicer dude, but I think he's simply too old for the role (especially if they then go the route of getting someone like a Natalie Portman for Lois). and actually he's already publicly said he wouldn't want to do it.

[javierm27]

Originally Posted by junior94

The new EW issue has the results of a poll asking fans who they'd like to see play the new Supes. Joseph Gordon-Levitt actually got 3% of the vote, that absolutely astounds me, even in that small amount. I really like JGL as an actor overall, I'd be perfectly fine seeing him as the Riddler, but holy hell is he just an awful choice to play Superman. He wouldn't have even remotely occurred to me in a hundred years.


Tom Welling - 56%
Matt Bomer ("White Collar") - 14%
Brandon Routh - 13%
Jon Hamm - 8%
Henry Cavill ("The Tudors") - 6%
JGL - 3%


and I really like Jon Hamm as an actor, I'm so happy to see him finally really getting somewhere as a serious actor, as I've talked about before I was around him when I worked for a couple months on the Lifetime series "The Division" and he couldn't have been a nicer dude, but I think he's simply too old for the role (especially if they then go the route of getting someone like a Natalie Portman for Lois). and actually he's already publicly said he wouldn't want to do it.

I think out of those picks I would like Bommer, but Cavill is right there as well. But I am sure that they will probably go with someone we aren't even thinking about. Kind of like they did with Batman and the Joker picks.

[javierm27]

The film will focus on early days of Superman, so there will be no links with other films. This is not a remake then. Similarly, although I still can not talk about the script, I can assure you that this new Superman will not be based on a comic book in particular.

Although it wont be a reboot it sounds like they will show some of the early days of Superman.

http://www.collider.com/2010/10/16/s...nyder/?_r=true