Theory about set lists

[trippingant]

Watching the set lists and people's reaction to the band playing/overplaying bad/average songs over the years while ignoring a lot of fan favorites got me thinking: Are the band's musical tastes that much different than their fans? If that were true, they wouldn't write so many great songs in the first place.

I think the confusion for a lot of fans lies in the difference between the best songs to listen to and the most fun songs to play. We all know for years Dave has said, "We're gonna play what we want to," and uses this to write set lists. As a guitar player, I've realized that my favorite songs to play a lot of times are different than my favorite songs to listen to. With 7 members now in the band, this increases 7 fold. You have 7 different voices who all have their favorites they enjoy playing for whatever reason influencing the set lists. This explains why Can't Stop and Eh Hee are turds musically, but they may just be tons of fun to play for a majority of the band members. They just don't get as much enjoyment playing PFYWG and Captain as they do Seven and YMDT, even if they are superior songs musically.

So this begs the question: assuming the above is true, are you ok with this and getting great performances/energy on mediocre songs or would you rather Dave write set lists based on their best material musically but not have as much fun on stage?

[SBSFC91]

I want Dave to have as much fun on stage as possible because as soon as he stops enjoying it, it will all come to an end.

[crounsa810]

Yeah, kinda. I mean, I would love to see a Blue Water or Let You Down or PFWYG but if the band is having no fun playing them, they won't be as good anyway.

[webbo_5]

It depends. Will the performances suffer if they are miserable? I would rather see Dave seethe his way through Blue Water than dance his ass off to Cornbread.

[rickyh24]

Dave loves mediocre songs. It's pretty obvious at this point. Eh Hee is getting it's ass played off and it's not even on this next album. Or any album for that matter.

[onesweetwor1d]

Originally Posted by SBSFC91

I want Dave to have as much fun on stage as possible because as soon as he stops enjoying it, it will all come to an end.

Couldn't have said it better, been saying this for a while now

[trippingant]

Originally Posted by webbo_5

It depends. Will the performances suffer if they are miserable? I would rather see Dave seethe his way through Blue Water than dance his ass off to Cornbread.

I think the performances would definitely suffer if they're miserable, especially over the long haul. Songs would get stale, solos would be lifeless, Dave would sing with less passion. Or maybe if they forced themselves, they'd learn to love them all over again. Who knows, just playing devil's advocate here.

[trippingant]

Originally Posted by rickyh24

Dave loves mediocre songs. It's pretty obvious at this point. Eh Hee is getting it's ass played off and it's not even on this next album. Or any album for that matter.

Do you really think he just has a mediocre taste in his own music? Or do you think he recognizes the fact that Eh Hee is a lower quality song than BOWA, but he just has more fun playing it? I think the latter.

[webbo_5]

Originally Posted by trippingant

Do you really think he just has a mediocre taste in his own music? Or do you think he recognizes the fact that Eh Hee is a lower quality song than BOWA, but he just has more fun playing it? I think the latter.

I'm not so sure.

[som3d3vil34]

This isn't really a theory. I'd say it's well documented that Dave has poor taste in his own music.

[canes101190]

With Dave, it's about comfort and feel. Like he says in that Hello Again doc, if he doesn't believe a song or feel a song, he won't sing it. Explains why tunes like Last Stop, Dreaming Tree, etc don't get played as often.

In my opinion, I think there needs to be some give and take with that since Dave knows how much the fans like these songs, but alas, there isn't.

[ctalk112]

I agree with what you said OP. Assuming that what you said is true, I would want the band to play the songs they enjoy playing. With that being said, I don't think it would be too much to ask if they played Dreaming Tree or Spoon (or any rare "good" song) from time to time to keep things interesting. If they played one or two really good songs (PFWYG, Spoon, Dreaming Tree, Captain, Raven, etc.) a night that they don't enjoy, that could make all the difference in that particular nights set. The band playing a few songs that they don't like a night shouldn't be that big of a hassle for them IMO, but I don't think any of us can speak for the band.

[rickyh24]

Originally Posted by ctalk112

I agree with what you said OP. Assuming that what you said is true, I would want the band to play the songs they enjoy playing. With that being said, I don't think it would be too much to ask if they played Dreaming Tree or Spoon (or any rare "good" song) from time to time to keep things interesting. If they played one or two really good songs (PFWYG, Spoon, Dreaming Tree, Captain, Raven, etc.) a night that they don't enjoy, that could make all the difference in that particular nights set. The band playing a few songs that they don't like a night shouldn't be that big of a hassle for them IMO, but I don't think any of us can speak for the band.

This tour so far has been nothing but the same shit over and over. It shows where this bands mind set is.

Total song play count is irrelevant with this band because so many good songs get play 1-3 times a tour.

[crounsa810]

Well, if you think about it though, say you're happy and loving life and not a care in the world. Would you really wanna sing Dreaming Tree or one of the sadder songs? Or would you play idk..Cornbread? Makes sense.


We wouldn't want to hear

"Long before these crowded streets!!!! Here stood his dreaming tree!!!! Below it he would sit for hours at a time!!! Now progress takes away what forever took to find! "


Or the opposite, if you keep getting shit on and having a rough time, doubt you'd wanna sing BOWA or even Nancies. "SING AND DANCE!!! LA LA LA LA HEYYY!" would turn into "Sing and oh fuck it...la...la....la....fuck"

[som3d3vil34]

Originally Posted by crounsa810

Well, if you think about it though, say you're happy and loving life and not a care in the world. Would you really wanna sing Dreaming Tree or one of the sadder songs? Or would you play idk..Cornbread? Makes sense.


We wouldn't want to hear

"Long before these crowded streets!!!! Here stood his dreaming tree!!!! Below it he would sit for hours at a time!!! Now progress takes away what forever took to find! "


Or the opposite, if you keep getting shit on and having a rough time, doubt you'd wanna sing BOWA or even Nancies. "SING AND DANCE!!! LA LA LA LA HEYYY!" would turn into "Sing and oh fuck it...la...la....la....fuck"

Halloween has been played at 1/3 of the shows this year. Your argument is invalid.

[Bmwm3oz]

I want them to enjoy what they are doing, otherwise I don't feel anything from the show.

[cpolly07]

Originally Posted by SBSFC91

I want Dave to have as much fun on stage as possible because as soon as he stops enjoying it, it will all come to an end.

I'd rather hear an A- version of The Riff or something new(er) than Dave butchering an older and rarer song such as Pig

[berman1125]

Originally Posted by canes101190

With Dave, it's about comfort and feel. Like he says in that Hello Again doc, if he doesn't believe a song or feel a song, he won't sing it. Explains why tunes like Last Stop, Dreaming Tree, etc don't get played as often.

In my opinion, I think there needs to be some give and take with that since Dave knows how much the fans like these songs, but alas, there isn't.

It all really comes down to Dave. He sings the songs, he writes the sets...it's his band. Honestly I think he gets in a comfort zone of 30 songs he knows inside and out and sticks to them for the tour and then subs in songs here and there. If they do a sloppy debut version, I think Dave will want to play it again to nail it. Then we have songs like DIDO, Loving Wings, OSW, Fool to Think, Help Myself...the list goes on...they are all one and done this tour. I hope some of them come back, they are all good songs.

If Dave isn't feeling it, they won't play it...It's his fault that he doesn't spend a lot of time remembering how to play old stuff. He seems to always be coming up with new ideas instead of rethinking old material.

[berman1125]

Originally Posted by rickyh24

This tour so far has been nothing but the same shit over and over. It shows where this bands mind set is.

Total song play count is irrelevant with this band because so many good songs get play 1-3 times a tour.

Only 52 songs this tour have gotten 5 or more plays. 32 songs that have not gotten a lot of play

[trippingant]

Here's something else to consider: Dave is rather self-deprecating when it comes to his songwriting. In the old days he used to write the majority of the songs with the band filling in and writing their own parts. But starting with BTCS and certainly with newer material, the band has written more songs together as a whole. Do you think he feels obligated to play more of the "band written" songs to keep the rest of the band happy, even at the expense of quality?

[Strangely Brown]

I think when Dave says he hopes they got it right for you, you should take him at his word.

He as much apologizes for playing some songs though plays them anyway because he likes them.

That is fine with me.

[liljoey90]

Regardless of what his reasoning is, I always thought it was unfair that he claims they are gonna do what they want. A lot of us that go to shows fell in love with the older stuff, it's not right to neglect that because it got old to him... We aren't asking to play cover songs, he wrote this stuff!!! It's like he pretends he didn't write it.... I just don't understand sometimes. I really don't have any complaints this year though.... People saying its the same shit must not be going to many shows. I've been to over 10 so far this tour, and I didn't leave many of them disappointed, and I'm pretty damn critical when it comes to set lists. I think Bristow was the only show I left really disappointed.

[berman1125]

Originally Posted by liljoey90

Regardless of what his reasoning is, I always thought it was unfair that he claims they are gonna do what they want. A lot of us that go to shows fell in love with the older stuff, it's not right to neglect that because it got old to him... We aren't asking to play cover songs, he wrote this stuff!!! It's like he pretends he didn't write it.... I just don't understand sometimes. I really don't have any complaints this year though.... People saying its the same shit must not be going to many shows. I've been to over 10 so far this tour, and I didn't leave many of them disappointed, and I'm pretty damn critical when it comes to set lists. I think Bristow was the only show I left really disappointed.

the problem is the exact opposite

[webbo_5]

Originally Posted by berman1125

the problem is the exact opposite

Exactly. Unless you travel to somewhere like The Gorge, one show or a two night stand is enough. You won't be disappointed.

[moosicmaniac]

What pisses me off about the setlists is the inconsistency. I was at Bethel and besides Minarets and Typical, I thought the set was subpar. Then on a night ONE at Alpine, they play YNK, Blue Water > BOWA, and Jane in the first 6 songs. what. the. fuck. man.

[barefoot]

its not that the setlists are not good it is that they have so many songs they do not play anymore at all that could easily be worked into sets. PFWYG, DIDO, BOWA, GRANNY these are all songs that can really elevate a show if they replace You and Me, SMLAM, Eh Hee and OOMH

[DMBzilla]

The thing that I don't get is why so many songs are played so sporadically within the same tour. It's bullshit that BOWA has 2 plays while Eh Hee has 14 or whatever.

I'm thrilled for everyone at Alpine last night that they got a great show, but it's so unfair to so many other venues that didn't get those songs. They played all three songs I wanted but didn't get in five shows in one show last night. I don't get that shit at all.

[Dannyyankou]

I'm sick of this "it's not fair" bullshit. Dave can play whatever he wants and as he said in the documentary, if he's not feeling a certain song at the time, he shouldn't play it. I just want to see the guys enjoying themselves as much as possible.

Rant done. Troll away.

[PhilliesFan86]

This band is forever changing; it’s been a new sound since Leroi passed. 2009-2010 for me I feel the band was trying to find its nitch and be somewhat of a jam band with an "in your face" sound, and also speeding up songs. For me 2011-2012 I believe this is the best the band has sounded in years, they seem very in sync. What you hear is what you are going to get, it’s like a relationship, and there is a comfort zone that you always hit. Most of us here are 20, 30 even 40 shows in, we are a very tough bunch to please it seems. Just sit back and love the music. That’s really all you can do, there will never be a Dave Matthews Band ever again, and take it for all its worth now before it’s too late.

[Dannyyankou]

Originally Posted by PhilliesFan86

This band is forever changing; it’s been a new sound since Leroi passed. 2009-2010 for me I feel the band was trying to find its nitch and be somewhat of a jam band with an "in your face" sound, and also speeding up songs. For me 2011-2012 I believe this is the best the band has sounded in years, they seem very in sync. What you hear is what you are going to get, it’s like a relationship, and there is a comfort zone that you always hit. Most of us here are 20, 30 even 40 shows in, we are a very tough bunch to please it seems. Just sit back and love the music. That’s really all you can do, there will never be a Dave Matthews Band ever again, and take it for all its worth now before it’s too late.

I couldn't have said it any better myself. Just enjoy the music.