Dave Matthews' song writing correlations

[CrashTheStone41]

Originally Posted by lockman21

Yeah...I don't agree here at all.

it's got some similarities. Warehouse, Satellite, and #34 actually.

[YankeesDMB41]

Too Much violin riff and the part of WWYS during the jam sound similar

[SpecialAgent007]

Originally Posted by HavnAGdTime

Also typical situation, nancies chorus

Captain and 41 are similar, as are joyride and rapunzel and why i am(kinda)

recently/too much/say goodbye/SDL/LITHOG/billies/grey street/spaceman/WTWE all incorporate "Dave" chords

The use of static notes and moving bass notes is definitely common for Dave. Other examples would be #41 verse, Crash Into Me, Proudest Monkey, Pig verse, The Stone chorus, When the World Ends chorus...probably more, but you get the point.

[SpecialAgent007]

Originally Posted by CrashTheStone41

it's got some similarities. Warehouse, Satellite, and #34 actually.

Songs with this chord all stick out to me, despite that they're usually not similar in any other way. After Message in a Bottle and Every Breath You Take made that chord ubiquitous, it's hard not to note the similarity.

And it's basically a 5add9 chord, which is stacked 5ths. It's harmonically ambiguous like a 5th chord because it features no 3rd. Many people play the full major or minor versions of the chords as follows:

Built off of the E string:

C Major (add9): 8 10 12 9 8 8

C Minor (add9): 8 10 12 8 8 8

Or built off of the A string:

C Major (add9): X3575X(3)

C Minor (add9): X3574X(3)

It's also the same as this chor shape you see Dave use a fair amount:

5X24XX

Which is the same pitches as 579XXX.

[HavnAGdTime]

Originally Posted by CrashTheStone41

it's got some similarities. Warehouse, Satellite, and #34 actually.

SMTS as well

[HavnAGdTime]

Originally Posted by SpecialAgent007

The use of static notes and moving bass notes is definitely common for Dave. Other examples would be #41 verse, Crash Into Me, Proudest Monkey, Pig verse, The Stone chorus, When the World Ends chorus...probably more, but you get the point.

I friggin love the sound it produces. So groovy

[Trendall]

Originally Posted by SpecialAgent007

The use of static notes and moving bass notes is definitely common for Dave. Other examples would be #41 verse, Crash Into Me, Proudest Monkey, Pig verse, The Stone chorus, When the World Ends chorus...probably more, but you get the point.

Seven and If Only would be good examples of riffs with moving bass notes.

[bustedstuff88]

LITHOG is played very similar to grey street on my guitar......

[coleslaw182]

I strung up a raised b guitar the thee day and haven't put it down. Good times.

[BustedFluff]

Originally Posted by SpecialAgent007

They're used plenty and have been for a long, long, long time now. Forms of these chords have oftentimes been referred to as 10th chords as it's basically the 3rd of the chord raised an octave, so 10 instead of 3. They still wouldn't be written this way in an academic setting, as the way the chord is voiced doesn't change the value of the chord. 5xx6xx is basically an A Major chord with no 5th while a 5xx5xx is an A Minor chord with no 5. You might see it transcribed as A Maj (no 5) or A mi (no 5).

It's easy to skip the 5 when building major and minor chords because the 5th interval is the same.

A Major: 1 A 3 C# 5 E
A Minor: 1 A m3 C 5 E

Playing just the 1st and 3rd of the chord allows the chord to function as a major or minor chord, whereas if we just played the 1st and the 5th, there's no note to differentiate the chord from say an A Major and A Minor. Obviously 5th chords have a place (hello nearly every punk song ever if we're resorting to generalizations!), but if you want to play a 2 note chord that implies a more specific major or minor value, you play a chord with the 1st and the 3rd.

These types of chords were and are used quite often in blues and jazz music when comping, as you typically don't want to muddy up the mix too much. I you use too colorful of chords, it can easily clash with the piano and horns. So you keep it simple, especially if you have to move around a lot, which is also why I think Dave often uses them. It allows him to cover a lot more ground in a progression without having to change chord shapes much, and again, unlike with the ambiguous sounding 5th chord, you still get a major or minor value.

Originally Posted by SpecialAgent007

The chord you're thinking of is a Major 7 chord with no 3rd. Think a 5th chord with a major 7th intercal on top. In the context of One Sweet World and Everyday (and generally #36 as the tonal implications are the same), he's playing a repeating 1-5 (I-V technically) progression or a 4-1 (IV-I) and using the the 5th and major 7th of the first chord in the progression as a sort of anchor. In, One Sweet World, it functions as a I (tonic) chord, and he changes the bass note to make the V chord, which is similar to those 10th chords I wrote about a earlier, except the root note gets voiced an octave up as well (so still functionally a 1st-3rd or 10th chord). It's the same for Everyday, except that the chord is functioning as a IV chord which resolves to the I (tonic) chord when the bass note changes. The key similarity in these songs is the static notes and moving bass between the A and E string.

Stay uses the same 5th chord with a Major 7th. voicing as the others, however it's functioning differently in the context of the song. The 5th chord with a Major 7th voicing is about the only thing similar as its functioning as a IV chord moving to an oddly voiced V chord with no dominant power that moves back to the IV before moving to a ii chord. None of these chords feature the 3rd and thus all of them have weak tonal implications when considered alone. The V chord is really more of a Sus4 chord if we account for the Bb note sandwiched between the F octave chord. The ii chord is the classic power chord, with just the 5th and the octave; no 3rd.

But why does this work so well?!?

It's simply because we don't resolve to the I or tonic chord (Bb Major in this case) until the verse!

And what happens to get us there?!?

A 2 bar vamp complete with one and a half bars of 4:3 Cross-Rhythm on the first and only chord of the chorus that's not so totally ambiguous, and a V at that! It's a full F major chord, 1st-3rd-5th and the octave too. By the time you get to it, you don't even need to dominant 7 V7 chord for the resolution to feel strong. The Cross-Rhythm also adds tension and thus power to the resolution.

And when I say 4:3 Cross-Rhythm, what I mean is that the 8th notes are grouped in 3s instead of 2s to imply a different time-signature, with the 1st note of each group of 3 8th notes accented, resulting in a brief 6/8 compound feel, before reverting to the normal accents for the final 2 beats of the second bar.

I'll try to map it out in a way that might make better sense to some, parentheses signify note groupings, again, the first note of each group is accented:

(1 and 2) (and 3 and) (4 and 1) (and 2 and) (3 and) (4 and)

In other news…

Apparently this is what I do on my iPad while in bed resting to see if my abdomen stops hurting because I don't want to go to the doctor and find out I have an appendicitis or a hernia! I can't really sleep, and I can't play guitar, so I'll just (over) analyze it instead.

I'd call the Stay chord an Eb Major 7th Omit 3rd though, rather than Eb 5 Major 7th

[brianremy]

I'd say that the last stop and out of my hands are very similar. Whenever they are played at a concert I can't tell the difference between the two.

[Jared41]

Everyday & Cry Freedom

Exact same chord progression just a half note down.

[SpecialAgent007]

Originally Posted by BustedFluff

I'd call the Stay chord an Eb Major 7th Omit 3rd though, rather than Eb 5 Major 7th

Yes, definitely. I was using both at different times to try to explain it in different ways and never really clarified. I've found it to be a nice chord to use in passages with modulations as it always sounds major but not really in a strong sense.

[harribri]

Originally Posted by HavnAGdTime

Also typical situation, nancies chorus

Captain and 41 are similar, as are joyride and rapunzel and why i am(kinda)

recently/too much/say goodbye/SDL/LITHOG/billies/grey street/spaceman/WTWE all incorporate "Dave" chords

this.

[ToySoldier#34]

Well said SpecialAgent0007, I still think the thing that impresses me the most about Dave's guitar playing outside of his riff / chord progression ability is his ability to use so many strumming / muting techniques throughout a song. I've gotten a lot better at mixing up patterns but just watching him play the Benaroya show is pretty impressive. Question, I try to learn as many different guitarists as possible so that I'm not entirely like Dave when I play, but does he pick the bass note of chords before strumming them more often than other popular rhythm guitarists? I feel like a lot of rhythm players end up playing full chords whereas Dave hits the bass note before strumming the chord to make it stand out a bit more, a good example is the original way he played Raven.

[joyfulgirl]

I dont play guitar but I like to sing so I notice the lyrical correlations more than musical. There are so many! We all know the obvious subjects that he uses in numerous songs..rain, monkeys, grace, wine, light etc. Many of Daves songs have words or phrases that he uses again in other songs. A few that come to mind off the top of my head:
#41 and Stay - I wanted to stay and dont it make you wanna, stay... Stay is sung the same in both songs
You and Me and You Never Know - "moon and the stars will follow the car" "when your small, the moon follows the car"
Crush - Pig "and here Im dancing on the ground" "while your dancing on the ground"
Everyday and Stay - jump in the mud, mud" " just gropin you rollin in the mud"
SMLAM and Belly Belly Nice - I like my coffee with toast and jelly but I'd rather be lickin from your back to your belly" I wanna eat your belly jelly til the kingdom come"
thats a few, theres a lot more

[SpecialAgent007]

Originally Posted by ToySoldier#34

Well said SpecialAgent0007, I still think the thing that impresses me the most about Dave's guitar playing outside of his riff / chord progression ability is his ability to use so many strumming / muting techniques throughout a song. I've gotten a lot better at mixing up patterns but just watching him play the Benaroya show is pretty impressive. Question, I try to learn as many different guitarists as possible so that I'm not entirely like Dave when I play, but does he pick the bass note of chords before strumming them more often than other popular rhythm guitarists? I feel like a lot of rhythm players end up playing full chords whereas Dave hits the bass note before strumming the chord to make it stand out a bit more, a good example is the original way he played Raven.

As far as the bass notes go, I wouldn't say that it's an unusual style. It's pretty common to hit the bass note before strumming the rest of the chord. His rhythm playing is fairly interesting though. I wouldn't say Dave is as innovative as some people do, but that's not to say he's not an interesting player and writer. His style of playing lead-like lines as rhythm parts on an acoustic in mainstream music is fairly unique though.