The NHL Thread

[swordo84]

Disappointing end to an otherwise fantastic season. To be one period away from the WCF...well, I don't think anyone would have predicted that. Oilers (finally) have a great, young team with a bright future ahead.

It's going to be weird going into next season with actual expectations.

[barbogast]

There are only two teams that have been missing from the conference finals longer than the Caps. Unreal.

Since Ovechkin came on board, 21 teams have played in round 3 of the playoffs. Un-fucking-real.

Why did I have to be a Caps fan.

[salrx95]

Originally Posted by barbogast

There are only two teams that have been missing from the conference finals longer than the Caps. Unreal.

Since Ovechkin came on board, 21 teams have played in round 3 of the playoffs. Un-fucking-real.

Why did I have to be a Caps fan.

It's ok. We're one of them too.

Barry Melrose calling for the Caps to trade OVie.

[TMoore4075]

Originally Posted by TheLastPig

Didn't backread yet. Really stunned at the outcome.

I just saw Mike Milbury say that from Trotz perspective he shouldn't have expected the game to be won on the back of Ovechkin, but instead on the back of guys like oshie and Backstrom........ what?!?

Well to be fair it was everyone's fault because no one showed up. I said it the other day if they were down 1-0 they'd start to think about year's past and it sure liked that was the case. The 2nd goal by Holtby was awful too but it was Ovie who turned it over.

Originally Posted by salrx95

It's ok. We're one of them too.

Barry Melrose calling for the Caps to trade OVie.

In the old days (pre-cap) I think they trade him. I mean you can't get to the ECF's with him so can't be too much worse without him. But trading a 9.5mil salary would be tough even if the Caps held some salary back. So I really don't know what the Caps do. They went from looking confident as hell in game 6 to their same old selves last night.

I was thinking last night even before the Oilers game, the Oilers have been to more conference finals in the last 12 years than the Caps and they missed the playoffs for 10 of those years. Sorry Barbs....

[swordo84]

On Ovi, and the Caps from someone who has followed G8 since he was 17.

https://twitter.com/SlavaMalamud/sta...89936041316352

[barbogast]

Originally Posted by salrx95

It's ok. We're one of them too.

Barry Melrose calling for the Caps to trade OVie.

Yeah sadly you guys are one of those two teams I mentioned (Florida is the other).

I don't know how I feel about all the trade Ovie and blow it up stuff just yet. My immediate gut reaction is don't, stay the course and try again. But at the same time, how many times can you keep rolling the same dice before you decide they're not gonna give you the result you want?

That said, logistically trading Ovechkin is much easier said than done. However, I'm sure if Mac really wanted to, he could find a suitor willing to make room for him.

I just don't know what to think right now. It's kind of shell shocking. It's weird because this one actually doesn't sting quite as bad as it has in the past (i.e. I actually have the stomach to be on Ants talking about it less than 12 hours after the fact, that hasn't always been the case). But they once again out did themselves. I say every year that the Caps seem to always find a way to come up with the biggest let down yet. The exception was last year, I feel there was no choke there. But once again, we're right here again.

Brief history of how the Caps keep embarrassing themselves more than they did the previous year:

2009: First playoff series win by an Ovie group, then they force game 7 vs. Pens, lose it 6-2 on home ice

2010: Lose game 7 1-0 on home ice in the first round to the 8th seeded Canadiens after winning the President's trophy and having a lead in the series

2011: FINALLY win a series with ease and take out the Rangers in 5 only to be swept by the upstart Lightning one round later

2012: Game 6 OT winner on the road in MSG, ok this has to be it, they're finally gonna break through, game 7 loss at home 2-1

2013: Let's take a big step backwards and lose in round one, but let's do it in extra Caps style by going up 3-2 in the series only to drop games 6 and 7 featuring a 5-0 blowout on home ice in game 7

2014: Didn't think it could get worse? Here you go: DID NOT QUALIFY

2015: The second round again, versus our old friends the Rangers. How is this one gonna top the previous ones you ask? Well, let's go ahead and blow a 3-1 series lead to lose game 7 in OT. Great job!

2016: Yeah, ok, no choke here. The Pens just straight up beat us.

2017: Let's go down hard to the Pens then claw all the way back, let's even play the best game we've possibly ever played in the playoffs in game 6, let's force a 7th on home ice, let's outshoot them in EVERY GAME OF THE SERIES. Surely this can't happen again. Oh look at that, shutout on home ice.

It's like clockwork. I just don't know how many more of these we can have before maybe it is time to blow it up a little bit.

[barbogast]

Originally Posted by swordo84

On Ovi, and the Caps from someone who has followed G8 since he was 17.

https://twitter.com/SlavaMalamud/sta...89936041316352

I was literally getting ready to post that link in my lengthy post I just made but I forgot to include it. Worth the read. This guy just spewed fire. And I think he nailed it a little bit.

[TMoore4075]

My biggest question of Ovie's commitment to winning a Cup came when he said he'd go to the Olympics even if the NHL wasn't going. I get you want to play for your country but your contract isn't with them and your team/league isn't taking part in it so walking away from your team for roughly 2.5 weeks in the 4th quarter of the season is what you would do? He seems like a guy who wants it all and wants it to be given to him. Just looking at my team but Stevie Y went from scoring 50+ goals and 120+ points and gave that all up to win a Cup. Scoring 69 points the year they won their 2nd Cup in a row. When they won the first, he was basically their 3rd line center. Yeah Scotty rolled 4 lines pretty well but he was on their 3rd line.

Ovie's fun to watch and I'd like to see that team win it but he's got some major flaws. But again, last night's lost goes way beyond just him.

[barbogast]

Originally Posted by TMoore4075

My biggest question of Ovie's commitment to winning a Cup came when he said he'd go to the Olympics even if the NHL wasn't going. I get you want to play for your country but your contract isn't with them and your team/league isn't taking part in it so walking away from your team for roughly 2.5 weeks in the 4th quarter of the season is what you would do? He seems like a guy who wants it all and wants it to be given to him. Just looking at my team but Stevie Y went from scoring 50+ goals and 120+ points and gave that all up to win a Cup. Scoring 69 points the year they won their 2nd Cup in a row. When they won the first, he was basically their 3rd line center. Yeah Scotty rolled 4 lines pretty well but he was on their 3rd line.

Ovie's fun to watch and I'd like to see that team win it but he's got some major flaws. But again, last night's lost goes way beyond just him.

It does and it's important to remember that.

But he's the guy this team has been built around for 10 years now. He was supposed to be the answer, and so far that hasn't happened.

I've said previously that while I think Ovechkin wants to win a Cup and isn't thrilled his team keeps failing, I also think that if he retires without one he won't be all that disappointed. As in, I don't feel like his childhood dream will die if he retires without winning a Cup. As in, I don't think in his heart of hearts he really cares all THAT much.

This is exemplified in his feelings about the Olympics. And it's also why I don't see him as the type of player to get traded to a contender late in his career to try to win a Cup. I think when his contract with the Caps is over, his time in the NHL is as well, Cup or no Cup.

[jrkarger]

Ummmm....

Originally Posted by JRS1386

Love that barbs and jrkarger were the only ones right about game 7 from the Penns/Caps fan base. (Sorry that you were)

Fixed your quote for you.

Originally Posted by jrkarger

I'm not ready to completely write them off, but boy did the Pens look awful last night.

Originally Posted by jrkarger

The team being gassed argument is a bit of red herring IMO.

Both of these teams were in the playoffs last year as well. The pens net have only played 11 additional games between now and the end of last year's regular season.

It's much more of what you said in one of your earlier posts that for whatever reason they couldn't clear their own zone, sustain the offensive zone, and get any sort of organized power play.

I hope sully keeps guentzel with Sid tomorrow night. They really could use Daley back too.

Lastly, I think it took a while but the Letang factor finally showed up last night.

Originally Posted by jrkarger

You're totally right they looked out of sync.

I'll admit that I'm probably more hopeful than I should be given the last 4 periods of hockey in this series.

I just find it hard to believe that this team can turn so dramatically so fast.

They need to limit the turnovers... there were two consecutive ones by Sheary and Hainsey (I think) last night in the defensive zone that led directly to the second goal.

IMO those two weren't being out sync it was just sloppiness; especially on Sheary's part.

They need to clean that up.

One other thing I noticed is that the PK was TERRIBLE last night. They just let Oshie stand right in the center of their 4 man box. The Caps don't let the pens do that. They need to quit that crap too.

[unccrombie]

Originally Posted by barbogast

It does and it's important to remember that.

But he's the guy this team has been built around for 10 years now. He was supposed to be the answer, and so far that hasn't happened.

I've said previously that while I think Ovechkin wants to win a Cup and isn't thrilled his team keeps failing, I also think that if he retires without one he won't be all that disappointed. As in, I don't feel like his childhood dream will die if he retires without winning a Cup. As in, I don't think in his heart of hearts he really cares all THAT much.

This is exemplified in his feelings about the Olympics. And it's also why I don't see him as the type of player to get traded to a contender late in his career to try to win a Cup. I think when his contract with the Caps is over, his time in the NHL is as well, Cup or no Cup.

if sports has taught me one thing, 1 guy is never the answer

Lebron, MJ, Kobe, Golden Boy, Steve Young, Gretzky, etc. all needed a support cast.

The Kings were the most recent example of that.

[barbogast]

Originally Posted by unccrombie

if sports has taught me one thing, 1 guy is never the answer

Lebron, MJ, Kobe, Golden Boy, Steve Young, Gretzky, etc. all needed a support cast.

The Kings were the most recent example of that.

No I mean I get that. But let's not pretend like every guy you mentioned hasn't had one or more moments where they've taken over/come up HUGE in a really important playoff game (I'm talking REALLY important, not round 1 important).

That's the difference.

[barbogast]

Care to guess how many playoff OT winners Ovie has for the career?

none

Click the "Show Spoiler" Button to reveal hidden text.

[unccrombie]

Originally Posted by barbogast

No I mean I get that. But let's not pretend like every guy you mentioned hasn't had one or more moments where they've taken over/come up HUGE in a really important playoff game (I'm talking REALLY important, not round 1 important).

That's the difference.

for sure. he's 100% capable.

[barbogast]

The Caps really could've used a huge moment from Ovechkin last night. He didn't give us that. And I know Fleury made the great save.

Gretzky or Jordan wouldn't have settled for that.

[TMoore4075]

Originally Posted by barbogast

Care to guess how many playoff OT winners Ovie has for the career?

none

Click the "Show Spoiler" Button to reveal hidden text.

OK but how many did Mario have in his career?

[jrkarger]

Barbs, you and the other caps fans ITT even brohan seem like good dudes (ok, maybe not brohan...........totally kidding). I feel for you. The Steelers went through some really tough losses when I was growing up before they finally one the Super Bowl in 2005.

Please don't take any of my sarcastic posts as anything more than playful joking.

[barbogast]

Originally Posted by TMoore4075

OK but how many did Mario have in his career?

2 Stanley Cups

(two more than Ovechkin, as many as Crosby)

[barbogast]

Originally Posted by jrkarger

Barbs, you and the other caps fans ITT even brohan seem like good dudes (ok, maybe not brohan...........totally kidding). I feel for you. The Steelers went through some really tough losses when I was growing up before they finally one the Super Bowl in 2005.

Please don't take any of my sarcastic posts as anything more than playful joking.

Dude feel free to enjoy the fuck out of your win. Congrats to you and all the Pens fans.

[TMoore4075]

Originally Posted by barbogast

2 Stanley Cups

(two more than Ovechkin, as many as Crosby)

Then talk about Cups not OT goals. Dale Hunter had 4 ot goals in his career. I'm all for criticizing him but pick something more than OT goals. .

[barbogast]

Originally Posted by TMoore4075

Then talk about Cups not OT goals. Dale Hunter had 4 ot goals in his career. I'm all for criticizing him but pick something more than OT goals. .

I was just using it as an example

If Ovie wins a Cup I'll forgive him forever for not scoring an OT playoff goal

And sure, right now:

Dale Hunter playoff clutch level >>>> Ovechkin's

[jrkarger]

Originally Posted by TMoore4075

OK but how many did Mario have in his career?

I had to look it up but apparently Mario didn't have ANY post season OT goals. Or I could be totally reading this list wrong.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...time-goals.cgi

But according to this he had 11 post season GW goals; 5 in 92 alone.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...lemiema01.html

Originally Posted by barbogast

Dude feel free to enjoy the fuck out of your win. Congrats to you and all the Pens fans.

Ain't my win. I didn't do anything beside not wear the same Pens sweatshirt I had on during games 5 and 6

I'll take it, tho!

[TMoore4075]

It's just there is so much more than something as arbitrary as that. Like him not getting there in time to cover Rust or the lazy clearing attempt that lead to that amazingly bad goal by Holtby.

I mean Adam Foote never scored an OT goal and he's the greatest player ever.....

[TMoore4075]

Originally Posted by jrkarger

I had to look it up but apparently Mario didn't have ANY post season OT goals. Or I could be totally reading this list wrong.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...time-goals.cgi

But according to this he had 11 post season GW goals; 5 in 92 alone.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...lemiema01.html



Ain't my win. I didn't do anything beside not wear the same Pens sweatshirt I had on during games 5 and 6

I'll take it, tho!

Yeah he had none. Claude the turtle Lemieux has more than Mario. Mario is a better player don't get me wrong but it was just OT goals is an arbitrary thing to point to because maybe you play 6 OT games in one playoff year while some guys play 6 in 20 years.

[barbogast]

Originally Posted by TMoore4075

It's just there is so much more than something as arbitrary as that. Like him not getting there in time to cover Rust or the lazy clearing attempt that lead to that amazingly bad goal by Holtby.

I mean Adam Foote never scored an OT goal and he's the greatest player ever.....

true

And seriously, I know there's more to a game than just what happens with one player or one play. I truly do get that. I just wish, so badly, that Ovechkin could've earned his huge moment last night in a game that mattered so much, like so many great players have done before him. I really do know that sports are the outcome of a magnitude of varying factors, but there are countless examples of huge players coming up huge. And I mean really huge. Like take the game over down 1-0 in the 3rd period of game 7 of the most important game of your decade-plus long professional career kind of huge. I just really wish that had've happened for him.

[TheLastPig]

Originally Posted by TMoore4075

Well to be fair it was everyone's fault because no one showed up. I said it the other day if they were down 1-0 they'd start to think about year's past and it sure liked that was the case. The 2nd goal by Holtby was awful too but it was Ovie who turned it over.

It was everyone's fault, I just thought that comment was really off the wall because neither of the guys he mentioned have ever done it either.. so just because Ovie had a bad series to that point, you dont lean on or expect things from the organization's best player?

Originally Posted by swordo84

On Ovi, and the Caps from someone who has followed G8 since he was 17.

https://twitter.com/SlavaMalamud/sta...89936041316352

This seems accurate, but man was it harsh.

Originally Posted by barbogast

true

And seriously, I know there's more to a game than just what happens with one player or one play. I truly do get that. I just wish, so badly, that Ovechkin could've earned his huge moment last night in a game that mattered so much, like so many great players have done before him. I really do know that sports are the outcome of a magnitude of varying factors, but there are countless examples of huge players coming up huge. And I mean really huge. Like take the game over down 1-0 in the 3rd period of game 7 of the most important game of your decade-plus long professional career kind of huge. I just really wish that had've happened for him.

I really do feel for you Barbs, I know the feeling when I was younger with the steelers like jrkarger mentioned. Glad youre a good sport about all of it.

I dont think trading Ovie is the right move, the team is gonna look different going forward, but I think more than anything the Caps need another big time player, someone who is a level above a guy like Oshie. I dont know who that is or where you get it, but they need something.




Im still shocked that second goal went in. I dont know how that happened at all.

[TMoore4075]

I said it last night, when they went down 1-0 and then MAF made that huge save late in the 2nd, it was done. How much of this for this franchise is mental?

[aeroshady]

Originally Posted by lockman21

This is the worst conference final combination possible.

100% This.

Both games last night went to opposite way of what I was rooting for. I feel bad for both fan bases, but especially bad for the Caps fans since their window is shutting just like ours. The Oilers window is just beginning to open, so I feel less bad for them.

Barbs, really sorry for you man. Nothing else I can say that will help.


I am rooting hard for the Preds the rest of the way. That city loves that team and I would like to see someone new win the Cup this year. I have had a feeling all playoffs long that the Pens would repeat though.

[jrkarger]

Originally Posted by jrkarger

Ain't my win. I didn't do anything beside not wear the same Pens sweatshirt I had on during games 5 and 6

I'll take it, tho!

For the record, I will not wear said sweatshirt for the remainder of the playoffs.

[TMoore4075]

Originally Posted by TheLastPig

It was everyone's fault, I just thought that comment was really off the wall because neither of the guys he mentioned have ever done it either.. so just because Ovie had a bad series to that point, you dont lean on or expect things from the organization's best player?

.

Yeah and you'd expected and hope for a better game from him win or lose but as a Wings fan I remember the 2009 Finals and Crosby had 1 G and 2 A in 7 games. Tablot and Staal were the heroes imo. If Wings win that series either in 6 or 7 (which they were a couple goals away from doing) and Sid ends up with 3 points in 7 games it would have been put on him but his teammates stepped up and same goes for last night. If Oshie and Williams or whoever have great games and Caps win, there wouldn't be much talk about Ovie today.

Originally Posted by TheLastPig

I dont think trading Ovie is the right move, the team is gonna look different going forward, but I think more than anything the Caps need another big time player, someone who is a level above a guy like Oshie. I dont know who that is or where you get it, but they need something.

I don't think they trade him but it'll be interesting. Their window is as close to being shut without being shut, so I'm curious here.