So... I'd like to talk about religion

[SmoothG]

“The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can change this for me.”

Part of an Albert Einstein letter that recently sold for $3mil.

My opinion is...believe in whatever you want as long as it doesn’t harm anyone and you don’t try to push it your beliefs on anyone else. Belief in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc are all equally ridiculous to me. But if that’s your thing, whatever. It’s just a shame that religion drives so many policies and laws in America. To me it’s an archaic, unnecessary part of modern society. But if you want to cherry pick stories and morals from ancient texts (based largely on where and when your were born) - and apply them to the modern world instead of interpreting these texts literally...I understand...because some of that stuff is insane.

Instead of doing good things because you think you’ll be rewarded with heaven...or not doing bad shit out of fear and guilt of being punished and going to hell by some imaginary being...how about we just do good stuff (and not so bad stuff) because as a society we have come to a social agreement on what is best for everyone.

I don’t know. Believe whatever you want. Religion just seems a waste of time. Some decent stories and morals I guess - but none that can’t be found elsewhere in literature and society.

[scrock25]

Mother is the word for God on the lips and hearts of all children.

Morphine is bad for you.

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by SmoothG

“The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can change this for me.”

Part of an Albert Einstein letter that recently sold for $3mil.

My opinion is...believe in whatever you want as long as it doesn’t harm anyone and you don’t try to push it your beliefs on anyone else. Belief in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc are all equally ridiculous to me. But if that’s your thing, whatever. It’s just a shame that religion drives so many policies and laws in America. To me it’s an archaic, unnecessary part of modern society. But if you want to cherry pick stories and morals from ancient texts (based largely on where and when your were born) - and apply them to the modern world instead of interpreting these texts literally...I understand...because some of that stuff is insane.

Instead of doing good things because you think you’ll be rewarded with heaven...or not doing bad shit out of fear and guilt of being punished and going to hell by some imaginary being...how about we just do good stuff (and not so bad stuff) because as a society we have come to a social agreement on what is best for everyone.

I don’t know. Believe whatever you want. Religion just seems a waste of time. Some decent stories and morals I guess - but none that can’t be found elsewhere in literature and society.

I would suggest taking the eternal profit motive out of religion for a moment because as a fairly religious person I suppose it really never crosses my mind.

To believe in God is to love God, and want to be with and worship God. So spending time in church doing just that is really fulfilling. I don’t do it for the big heavenly payoff, though I do believe that one should spend time in church if you are a Christian.

As to a waste of time, let me tell you about that time.

I go to church with my family (my boy and fiancé), so it’s spending time with them. During mass, I love the music, the scriptures messages are interesting and very applicable to my everyday life as I think about being the best person I can be. It’s over an hour of not thinking about your day to day problems, very relaxing and meditative. I really love this time.

After church we are all together. Might get breakfast or go watch football.

Being a member of my church also provides a good way for me give back. I just turned in my angel tree present, a Christmas gift for a 6 year old with her parent in prison. We did the thanksgiving food drive, and other food drives, and I make funeral meals for families in need. Plus there are other opportunities. And yeah, I’m also a state coordinator for a cancer group outside of my church so I know there are plenty of ways give back outside of religious institutions nut this is also a great way.

All the point being, think of it as a lifestyle not just a collection of stories. And fear of going to hell isnt at the forefront of my thinking every waking moment and the cause of everything I do. I do my acts of charity because of my conscience and modeling good behavior as the leader of my family. If someone is only doing their good deeds for the wrong reasons as you state, I don’t think they’d last long.

And, when I think about all of this, it doesn’t feel like a waste of time at all. I get more of out it than I put in. And in the end, if if I just die and that’s it I’ll still be fine with how I’ve lived my life. Win-win.

[ExistenceNow]

Good post, C2S.

[Climb2safety]

Thank you Matthew.

[neumdogg]

I’m in the camp where I have no idea if there is a god or not but I sure as hell will not judge you either if you believe in god or not.

Religion provides a lot of good for our communities and serves an amazing purpose for a lot of people. What’s wrong with that?

As long as you aren’t pushing your religion on me or others, I am cool with you and your beliefs.

But yes, being Jewish is the best.

[bjordan319]

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-...onouns-n946006

Vlaming told superiors that his Christian faith prevented him from using male pronouns for the student

Yeah. That sounds super Christ-like.

[TrampledUnderw.]

Originally Posted by neumdogg

I’m in the camp where I have no idea if there is a god or not but I sure as hell will not judge you either if you believe in god or not.

Religion provides a lot of good for our communities and serves an amazing purpose for a lot of people. What’s wrong with that?

As long as you aren’t pushing your religion on me or others, I am cool with you and your beliefs.

But yes, being Jewish is the best.

I love seeing gaudy Hanukkah sweaters, always gets a sensible chuckle from me

[Strider_BTCS]

For the non-religious here. How did you introduce your children to the concept of religion? Neither my girlfriend or myself are religious and while we are not close to wanting kids just yet, we were discussing religion the other night and how we'd discuss it with our future children. In a perfect world I'd like my child to form their own beliefs free of my influence but I can't imagine that being realistic.

[Tiduwho]

First you must decide if you support the Unified Atheist League, the United Atheist Alliance, or the Allied Atheist Allegience.

[Strider_BTCS]

Well I am pro smashing skulls like clams on my tummy so I think that answers that

[FromTheMorning]

Originally Posted by Strider_BTCS

For the non-religious here. How did you introduce your children to the concept of religion? Neither my girlfriend or myself are religious and while we are not close to wanting kids just yet, we were discussing religion the other night and how we'd discuss it with our future children. In a perfect world I'd like my child to form their own beliefs free of my influence but I can't imagine that being realistic.

Just wait til they ask you about it, whenever that happens to be. I don't think there's a need to introduce them to the concept because the concept is, "Believe this on no evidence and prosper." I guess you could use that to teach them the importance of reason and skepticism. But they'll get wind of it from somewhere and then they'll ask. Best to not treat it like some serious topic.

[M. Steng]

Originally Posted by FromTheMorning

Just wait til they ask you about it, whenever that happens to be. I don't think there's a need to introduce them to the concept because the concept is, "Believe this on no evidence and prosper." I guess you could use that to teach them the importance of reason and skepticism. But they'll get wind of it from somewhere and then they'll ask. Best to not treat it like some serious topic.

[FromTheMorning]

Originally Posted by M. Steng

How would (did?) you handle it?

[Route_2]

Just tell them it's like imaginary friends for adults. They'll get it.

[scrock25]

Goodness gracious

[bjordan319]

Originally Posted by FromTheMorning

Just wait til they ask you about it, whenever that happens to be. I don't think there's a need to introduce them to the concept because the concept is, "Believe this on no evidence and prosper." I guess you could use that to teach them the importance of reason and skepticism. But they'll get wind of it from somewhere and then they'll ask. Best to not treat it like some serious topic.

Love this thread. And FWIW, I think this is a solid approach.

Weirdly enough, I was actually thinking about this just today. I'm still pretty young, so it's not going to come up for a while. But I figure I'll probably handle it how my family did: just literally never talk about religion I'm sure it'll come up organically, and I'll just let them form their own conclusions.

[TMoore4075]

Originally Posted by FromTheMorning

Just wait til they ask you about it, whenever that happens to be. I don't think there's a need to introduce them to the concept because the concept is, "Believe this on no evidence and prosper." I guess you could use that to teach them the importance of reason and skepticism. But they'll get wind of it from somewhere and then they'll ask. Best to not treat it like some serious topic.

My kid is almost 8 and while he hasn't asked about god and stuff he has mentioned Heaven so clearly he heard that from school. I told him no one knows if that's true or not. If he asks more real questions about it when he gets a little older I'll help him look into whatever he wants to look into. I want him to figure out his own path. I was forced to go to church because my parents made us. I was baptized Catholic and did all that stuff because my parents made us, which is funny that they stopped going themselves so what a waste that seems like now. I believed it because I was told it was real rather than truly believing it, which is like the "believe this with on evidence" cause again, was just told it was true.

[AJF_41]

Originally Posted by Route_2

Just tell them it's like imaginary friends for adults. They'll get it.

[Beefsteak1138]

Brainholes.

[scrock25]

Originally Posted by Beefsteak1138

Brainholes.

[scrock25]

Originally Posted by FromTheMorning

Just wait til they ask you about it, whenever that happens to be. I don't think there's a need to introduce them to the concept because the concept is, "Believe this on no evidence and prosper." I guess you could use that to teach them the importance of reason and skepticism. But they'll get wind of it from somewhere and then they'll ask. Best to not treat it like some serious topic.

Originally Posted by Route_2

Just tell them it's like imaginary friends for adults. They'll get it.

Originally Posted by bjordan319

Love this thread. And FWIW, I think this is a solid approach.

Weirdly enough, I was actually thinking about this just today. I'm still pretty young, so it's not going to come up for a while. But I figure I'll probably handle it how my family did: just literally never talk about religion I'm sure it'll come up organically, and I'll just let them form their own conclusions.

What I love most about this thread is that people who post stuff like this actually think that their opinions on the subject are inherently more valid than those who do have faith and believe in the religion of "insert religion here".

[MOWJO8185]

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

I would suggest taking the eternal profit motive out of religion for a moment because as a fairly religious person I suppose it really never crosses my mind.

To believe in God is to love God, and want to be with and worship God. So spending time in church doing just that is really fulfilling. I don’t do it for the big heavenly payoff, though I do believe that one should spend time in church if you are a Christian.

As to a waste of time, let me tell you about that time.

I go to church with my family (my boy and fiancé), so it’s spending time with them. During mass, I love the music, the scriptures messages are interesting and very applicable to my everyday life as I think about being the best person I can be. It’s over an hour of not thinking about your day to day problems, very relaxing and meditative. I really love this time.

After church we are all together. Might get breakfast or go watch football.

Being a member of my church also provides a good way for me give back. I just turned in my angel tree present, a Christmas gift for a 6 year old with her parent in prison. We did the thanksgiving food drive, and other food drives, and I make funeral meals for families in need. Plus there are other opportunities. And yeah, I’m also a state coordinator for a cancer group outside of my church so I know there are plenty of ways give back outside of religious institutions nut this is also a great way.

All the point being, think of it as a lifestyle not just a collection of stories. And fear of going to hell isnt at the forefront of my thinking every waking moment and the cause of everything I do. I do my acts of charity because of my conscience and modeling good behavior as the leader of my family. If someone is only doing their good deeds for the wrong reasons as you state, I don’t think they’d last long.

And, when I think about all of this, it doesn’t feel like a waste of time at all. I get more of out it than I put in. And in the end, if if I just die and that’s it I’ll still be fine with how I’ve lived my life. Win-win.

Huge for this one. Very much how I feel about it as well.

[YouKnowThatItIS]

Originally Posted by scrock25

What I love most about this thread is that people who post stuff like this actually think that their opinions on the subject are inherently more valid than those who do have faith and believe in the religion of "insert religion here".

Yeah... believers never try to impose their beliefs on others. They sit right back and let the rest of the country carry on their business and never tell us how to think or use politics to carry out their agenda.

ps: that should be read with a sarcastic tone

[Route_2]

Originally Posted by scrock25

What I love most about this thread is that people who post stuff like this actually think that their opinions on the subject are inherently more valid than those who do have faith and believe in the religion of "insert religion here".

On the contrary. I am agnostic on the inherent value of my or anyone else's opinion on the subject. If anything, we're all wrong.

[scrock25]

Originally Posted by YouKnowThatItIS

Yeah... believers never try to impose their beliefs on others. They sit right back and let the rest of the country carry on their business and never tell us how to think or use politics to carry out their agenda.

ps: that should be read with a sarcastic tone

I was referencing this thread.

What you said isn't wrong.

[bjordan319]

Originally Posted by scrock25

What I love most about this thread is that people who post stuff like this actually think that their opinions on the subject are inherently more valid than those who do have faith and believe in the religion of "insert religion here".

Everyone thinks their belief is more valid. That's why they hold those beliefs.

[scrock25]

Originally Posted by bjordan319

Everyone thinks their belief is more valid. That's why they hold those beliefs.

I take issue with that too, I'm not sure my belief is any more or less valid than anybody else's - my point in entering this discussion is that I'd never say things like, "don't have these conversations like it's some serious thing", or "just tell them it's a make believe friend for adults", or "just don't talk about it at all" like some others in the thread did because that's completely discounting the other side and the beliefs that those people hold. If that's what you think, that's cool, it's not the stance I would take with my kids, but the fact that those posters are so absolute about it is what's annoying. I have faith, was brought up Catholic, but obviously can entertain the idea that everything I know and believe in isn't true when the lights go out. The people reference above don't entertain the idea that there could be some deity waiting for them in the same scenario.

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by YouKnowThatItIS

Yeah... believers never try to impose their beliefs on others. They sit right back and let the rest of the country carry on their business and never tell us how to think or use politics to carry out their agenda.

ps: that should be read with a sarcastic tone

Can you tell us about your personal experiences with others attempting to impose their beliefs on you?

I’ve had some Mormans come to my door, or Jehovahs would these but I think that’s about it. It’s all been pretty benign.

[dontdrink36]

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

Can you tell us about your personal experiences with others attempting to impose their beliefs on you?

I’ve had some Mormans come to my door, or Jehovahs would these but I think that’s about it. It’s all been pretty benign.

It happens in politics all the time. Blue laws, biblical marriage, abortion, war on Christmas, etc. Teaching creationism in school is another big example.