Justice League Movies: Part One (2017) & Part Two (2019)

[fridge112887]

Here's the original theme from Junkie XL before Whedon cut ties and replaced him with grandpa Elfman. Even though it's choppy at times and doesn't sound complete, it's still better than what we were given

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/justi...elfman-a155528

[M. Steng]

Elfman's score stunk, totally uninspiring and was just a rehash of stuff that doesn't resonate with the modern superhero film.

The guy seems like a total prick from what I've seen in interviews. He basically said that he felt slighted that Hans didn't use his Batman 89 theme for the Nolan films and that the music should remain constant for heroes in every movie. By his own logic, he should have used the Batman 66 TV theme for the Keaton films then. What a fraud hack asshole.

[TMoore4075]

Elfman has done some great stuff but yeah that's dumb. And I thought the score in the Nolan films were awesome.

[chadizzy1]

Originally Posted by UCFish

So wow where do we go from here?

Justice League despite this thread enjoying it is a huge disaster....I mean $96 million is just a straight embarrassment. (I loved it....even more the more I reflect)

So options...

1. Reboot it all (don't think fans will forgive this)
2. Flashpoint....not gonna lie I don't know what this actually means but I think it means you can change actors?
3. Move forward and hope audiences will change mind (I am for this!)
4. Hope solo WW2 and Aquaman are awesome and will propel DC and eventually another will be made
5. Kick out Ben and do a new Batman Trilogy that will 95% be worse than the Dark Knight trilogy.
6. Blame all of BvsS and JL on Zach Snyder and give Joss the keys to the franchise to save it all.
7. Cancel the DCEU....make a shit ton on Potter sequels/IT 2/anything and just let it die.

I think the cast is fine. I think it's perhaps the writers/directors involved.

I'm fine with everyone as they are cast right now. I'm not 100% on Flash, but he's okay.

[UCFish]

I like the cast as well...interesting to see what happens with Ben.

[KevinTH]

I think it will be very difficult for DC to get out of their own way to effectively attempt an all out reboot. There's already actors at play set up with contracts and movies that have completed filming (Aquaman), with a planned Wonder Woman sequel on the way. Wonder Woman is their most successful property in the franchise at the moment. Between the love for the actual movie, the character and for Gal I don't see how they drop that opportunity in favor of starting a new DCEU.

Maybe they do a soft reboot in a way. Now that they've teamed up once and put things on a lighter path they could just start making movies based on Justice League being the first in the series...sort of, even though it's not performing well.

Affleck is out, we know that, so make a new Batman movie with the new actor and move back to earlier in his career. Superman has been brought back to life as the brighter version of the character so they can easily start pretty fresh there. Flash seems to have been well received and they didn't really delve into his backstory at all. Very little time was spent with Aquaman, so we know that's coming next year. Cyborg also seemed to be well received so he gets a solo movie detailing his origin. But forget the world building stuff and focus on making good movies about these characters. Keep them slightly lighter in tone to keep the audience, but I don't want to see them just going for straight copies of the Marvel formula. There can still be depth to a movie with some levity to it as well.

[chadizzy1]

Flashpoint is their way out.

[M. Steng]

They are going to have to realllyyyy dumb that shit down for the casual moviegoer, I agree it is one of only a few viable options for them at this point but boy oh boy, resting the future of the DCEU on a time-altering plot is by no means a guarantee for success.

[DMBZeppelin]

Cavill will be back for another movie.

From LA Times:

Superman may be officially back, but there’s no word on another Superman film, or even the previously announced “Justice League” sequel. Cavill sees a future movie as a way to correct some of the missteps in previous incarnations. He also notes that he is contracted for another picture in the franchise and feels hopeful for Superman’s future.

“There’s a wonderful opportunity to tell the Superman story,” he says. “Now there is a fantastic chance to show Superman in his full colors and tell a very complex, character-driven movie that is based on story and have that wonderful sensation of hope and happiness. A feel-good movie with lessons laced in there as well.”

[KevinTH]

Originally Posted by chadizzy1

Flashpoint is their way out.

It's certainly an option, but given the way things have been going I don't know that will play out very well. To piggy back on Mike's statement, the casual movie goer isn't going to know what any of that is. I'm a comic book fan and still don't really get how it reset everything. I've only ever seen the movie and never read the books, but the movie doesn't really give a great explanation as to how the timeline has been changed for the New 52.

Originally Posted by DMBZeppelin

Cavill will be back for another movie.

From LA Times:

Going to contradict myself a bit in terms of mentioning people's contracts in a previous post, but those can always be broken and plans can always change.

[DMBZeppelin]

Originally Posted by KevinTH

Going to contradict myself a bit in terms of mentioning people's contracts in a previous post, but those can always be broken and plans can always change.

Sure, but it's good to know they have him signed up for at least one more. I like Cavill as Superman so I hope the next MOS movie is good enough that he wants to re-up.

The casting overall for the DCEU has been fine. It's just been lack of depth with the storytelling. There's two solo movies (Man of Steel and Wonder Woman) and three team up movies (Suicide Squad, BvS, and Justice League) which is a bad formula. I was actually really looking forward to MOS2 with Snyder. I trust him with that vs universe building.

[UCFish]

Hope there is more with Superman.

He was so badass at the end of Justice League. I want to see more of that!

[KevinTH]

Originally Posted by DMBZeppelin

Sure, but it's good to know they have him signed up for at least one more. I like Cavill as Superman so I hope the next MOS movie is good enough that he wants to re-up.

The casting overall for the DCEU has been fine. It's just been lack of depth with the storytelling. There's two solo movies (Man of Steel and Wonder Woman) and three team up movies (Suicide Squad, BvS, and Justice League) which is a bad formula. I was actually really looking forward to MOS2 with Snyder. I trust him with that vs universe building.

I see what you’re saying. Henry Cavill was born to play Superman. He looks, sounds and acts the part. As much as I enjoyed BvS I really wanted a true Man of Steel sequel. I’m pretty anxious for that and really anxious to see more of the character in general. He did quite a bit in Man of Steel, but he was rather quiet, as that was his character. But he hasn’t really gotten to do much with the character since then. He didn’t really have all that much screen time in BvS and he barely had any screen time in Justice League. I hope he gets another shot.

[DeuceStep]

I think if they recast Superman the film does better. Possibly Batman as well. Also, recast Amy Adams because she is the worst and is no Lois Lane, not even a little bit.

Only in this day and age can a film make $94 million dollars in 3 days and be considered a failure. Unbelievable. If I were to make one of those millions in my lifetime, then my life would be considered a total success. JFC.

Edit: Overall, make a better film and it does way better. Still recast Amy Adams. The media stories over these last few months did not help expectations.

[chadizzy1]

Finally going to see the movie tomorrow morning. My daughter is in California visiting family, and my son is in school tomorrow, so I'm gonna check it out on the first day of my break. Very excited. I've heard nothing but good things from all my friends (even my Marvel friends).

[MOWJO8185]

I'm seeing this tomorrow as well.

[sheldonlevene]

Feel like I need to see this again this week. The further I get from it the more I feel like I dislike it.

I think this probably has more to do with how closely I followed production and how little of the original vision (no matter how divisive it likely would have ended up as well) remained intact. Just didn't feel like a Zack Snyder movie - perhaps to it's benefit with general audiences...although $94M says that's rubbish too. I don't know how to feel about what ended up on screen. #endrant

[M. Steng]

Originally Posted by sheldonlevene

Feel like I need to see this again this week. The further I get from it the more I feel like I dislike it.

I think this probably has more to do with how closely I followed production and how little of the original vision (no matter how divisive it likely would have ended up as well) remained intact. Just didn't feel like a Zack Snyder movie - perhaps to it's benefit with general audiences...although $94M says that's rubbish too. I don't know how to feel about what ended up on screen. #endrant

I'm with you, bro.

I feel like this movie's highs were very high; mostly in the form of cool moments (the "history lesson", Superman's resurrection, post-credits scenes, etc.). The thought of what could have been--even just based on those unfinished deleted scenes that were leaked--does make me a little sad. I've made no bones about the fact that I love MoS and BvS, and the Snyder version of JL seemed to keep those same threads in tact.

More than anything this movie made me despise Joss Whedon even more than I already did. The "It feels like something is bleeding" and "I didn't bring a sword" lines from Batman felt so out of character, especially the first one. Batman doesn't writhe in pain making funny comments, he gets up and keeps going, because he's fucking Batman and never gives up. I said it in my immediate review Friday morning that he wrote Batman like Tony Stark and it was absolutely terrible. The scene between Bruce and Diana drinking was definitely Snyder and it was one of the most in-character moments in the whole film.

/rant

[KevinTH]

I saw it again and really enjoyed it. It's not perfect, but it was a really entertaining movie. It could have had more depth, could have been longer, could have had a few less jokes from Batman, but it was still a lot of fun and I really enjoyed each character. The visuals were mostly enjoyable to watch and Steppenwolf not amounting to much didn't bother me at all, as I came into the movie wanting to see the Justice League. As I assumed, it amounted to a mid level stakes episode of Justice League. Only problem with that is they introduced 3 characters without much backstory, but if they can pull things together they will get their individual movie to spotlight their stories. It's been beat to death, but it will be really interesting to see where DC goes from here.

It would be amazing if DC could somehow break off from WB and get the executives out of their way. WB and their moronic executives are the ones that keep screwing this up for DC. I'm sure DC is not perfect and had some missteps, but it seems more like WB keeps meddling with the movies and causing more problems than good.

[sheldonlevene]

Originally Posted by M. Steng

I'm with you, bro.

I feel like this movie's highs were very high; mostly in the form of cool moments (the "history lesson", Superman's resurrection, post-credits scenes, etc.). The thought of what could have been--even just based on those unfinished deleted scenes that were leaked--does make me a little sad. I've made no bones about the fact that I love MoS and BvS, and the Snyder version of JL seemed to keep those same threads in tact.

More than anything this movie made me despise Joss Whedon even more than I already did. The "It feels like something is bleeding" and "I didn't bring a sword" lines from Batman felt so out of character, especially the first one. Batman doesn't writhe in pain making funny comments, he gets up and keeps going, because he's fucking Batman and never gives up. I said it in my immediate review Friday morning that he wrote Batman like Tony Stark and it was absolutely terrible. The scene between Bruce and Diana drinking was definitely Snyder and it was one of the most in-character moments in the whole film.

/rant

Yep. I really enjoyed that scene. Also loved the fact that Bruce was in his "undersuit". Snyder does the sort of shit that, for better or worse, we would do if we got to direct these things. The Bruce Diana stuff was the most impactful in my opinion.

I'm with you in hating the quip after getting thrashed by Superman. "Oh Shit!" prior to almost getting incinerated by Doomsday in BvS is about as close to "comic relief" as Batman should ever come - at least in costume. I was fine with some of the lines in the cave with the league (notable exception being "you do talk to fish right"), but the stuff where he was cutting Stark lines as you call them stood out - painfully.

I read something where Ezra mentioned his favorite Batman joke got truncated.

When Arthur throws the thing in the cave Bruce says, "hey don't do that". Originally the line was "hey don't do that...a lot of my shit explodes". Sub that for a cringey line any day...but maybe it was a language issue. Who knows.

[KevinTH]

Given that the rumors state Superman was supposed to be "evil" for a majority of the movie (probably due to the original idea of a 2 part movie) it's clear that scrapping that changed the entire trajectory of the movie. Practically any scene Superman was in was a re-shoot. I'd be interested to know how the original version played out, because I can't say I totally disagree with the choice to avoid evil Superman. They certainly brightened him up, and in some instances almost too much, but going with a dark Superman would not have gone over well. The biggest complaint about Superman for the last 4 years has been that he's too dark and there's nothing lovable about him. However, shots like him and Cyborg rolling around laughing after pulling apart the Mother Boxes was just too much. It felt so forced and completely out of place.

[M. Steng]

Originally Posted by sheldonlevene

Yep. I really enjoyed that scene. Also loved the fact that Bruce was in his "undersuit". Snyder does the sort of shit that, for better or worse, we would do if we got to direct these things. The Bruce Diana stuff was the most impactful in my opinion.

I'm with you in hating the quip after getting thrashed by Superman. "Oh Shit!" prior to almost getting incinerated by Doomsday in BvS is about as close to "comic relief" as Batman should ever come - at least in costume. I was fine with some of the lines in the cave with the league (notable exception being "you do talk to fish right"), but the stuff where he was cutting Stark lines as you call them stood out - painfully.

I read something where Ezra mentioned his favorite Batman joke got truncated.

When Arthur throws the thing in the cave Bruce says, "hey don't do that". Originally the line was "hey don't do that...a lot of my shit explodes". Sub that for a cringey line any day...but maybe it was a language issue. Who knows.

So many cringey lines in this film. Like Flash going "oh, I thought it was a nuclear bomb!" when they bring the MB back to the cave. What in the fuck would make Barry Allen--by all means a super smart guy--think that the mythical/mystical/magical object they've been chasing would be a fucking nuclear bomb?

I was also pissed that the "my turn" line got scrapped for the "I didn't bring a sword". Not only because "my turn" is more of a Batman line, but the same line essentially got recycled later on when he tells Aquaman, "at least I didn't bring a pitchfork." Just lazy, dumb, and nonsensical.

Originally Posted by KevinTH

Given that the rumors state Superman was supposed to be "evil" for a majority of the movie (probably due to the original idea of a 2 part movie) it's clear that scrapping that changed the entire trajectory of the movie. Practically any scene Superman was in was a re-shoot. I'd be interested to know how the original version played out, because I can't say I totally disagree with the choice to avoid evil Superman. They certainly brightened him up, and in some instances almost too much, but going with a dark Superman would not have gone over well. The biggest complaint about Superman for the last 4 years has been that he's too dark and there's nothing lovable about him. However, shots like him and Cyborg rolling around laughing after pulling apart the Mother Boxes was just too much. It felt so forced and completely out of place.

And the bolded is really what it ultimately comes down to. I have absolutely no issue with the fact that they wanted to try to lighten the movie up a bit, especially after it got switched from a 2-parter to a standalone film like you mentioned, Kev. Besides, Snyder had said all along (even before BvS was released!) that JL was going to be more uplifting, hopeful, etc.

The biggest issue is the way in which it was artificially and after-the-fact injected with Whedon quipping. It totally disrupted what little flow this movie even had and it was so out of place with the original footage that it was jarring.

[sheldonlevene]

Originally Posted by KevinTH

Given that the rumors state Superman was supposed to be "evil" for a majority of the movie (probably due to the original idea of a 2 part movie) it's clear that scrapping that changed the entire trajectory of the movie. Practically any scene Superman was in was a re-shoot. I'd be interested to know how the original version played out, because I can't say I totally disagree with the choice to avoid evil Superman. They certainly brightened him up, and in some instances almost too much, but going with a dark Superman would not have gone over well. The biggest complaint about Superman for the last 4 years has been that he's too dark and there's nothing lovable about him. However, shots like him and Cyborg rolling around laughing after pulling apart the Mother Boxes was just too much. It felt so forced and completely out of place.

Fair take, and I agree I don't think an evil Superman would have played for 2+ hours.

[MOWJO8185]

Originally Posted by M. Steng

So many cringey lines in this film. Like Flash going "oh, I thought it was a nuclear bomb!" when they bring the MB back to the cave. What in the fuck would make Barry Allen--by all means a super smart guy--think that the mythical/mystical/magical object they've been chasing would be a fucking nuclear bomb?

I was also pissed that the "my turn" line got scrapped for the "I didn't bring a sword". Not only because "my turn" is more of a Batman line, but the same line essentially got recycled later on when he tells Aquaman, "at least I didn't bring a pitchfork." Just lazy, dumb, and nonsensical.



And the bolded is really what it ultimately comes down to. I have absolutely no issue with the fact that they wanted to try to lighten the movie up a bit, especially after it got switched from a 2-parter to a standalone film like you mentioned, Kev. Besides, Snyder had said all along (even before BvS was released!) that JL was going to be more uplifting, hopeful, etc.

The biggest issue is the way in which it was artificially and after-the-fact injected with Whedon quipping. It totally disrupted what little flow this movie even had and it was so out of place with the original footage that it was jarring.

To be fair to Whedon, though, that's sort of just what he was brought in to do, right? If you don't like Whedon quips in general, that's a totally defensible position, but to blame Whedon or say you despise him even more for how they feel artificially injected into a different movie - well, that's exactly what WB brass asked him to do. I don't think they were ever going to just let him start over to make it feel more natural.

Again, if Whedon quips aren't your thing, that's fine, but I wouldn't say they feel "artificial" or "forced in" with regards to other Whedon movies that he has had complete control over. They may still annoy you but that's a different topic.

[UCFish]

Whedon saved this dumpster fire and made it enjoyable.

If he didn't jump in wonder what would have happened....also I thought they had been working together at some point before he left the production.

[KevinTH]

The fact that he almost completely reshot Superman’s entire role in the movie screams Snyder was fired. I don’t know how much more obvious it could be.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by UCFish

Whedon saved this dumpster fire and made it enjoyable.

If he didn't jump in wonder what would have happened....also I thought they had been working together at some point before he left the production.

that's kinda my thought on this too - if it wasn't for Whedon it's a 24% RT rating

[UCFish]

Originally Posted by Jake

that's kinda my thought on this too - if it wasn't for Whedon it's a 24% RT rating

[TwoStep2888]

I think the Snyder cut would get a lower tomato number but I think I'd like it more, from what I've seen and heard

[sheldonlevene]

Originally Posted by TwoStep2888

I think the Snyder cut would get a lower tomato number but I think I'd like it more, from what I've seen and heard

Basically where I’m at.