Prospective Boyd Replacement Discussion

[Friarmagal]

Originally Posted by alec

Alice In Chains has some great songs. I said the Dean DeLeo thing because “half the man I used to be” is an STP lyric.

Doh, cant believe I botched the reference. They would need Dean for that tour. I wonder if he's played the violin...

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[willndmb]

I think it's kinda funny to see people asking all the time about a replacement when the band hasn't even really acknowledged him not being there to begin with.
Sure they made one half as post on Facebook about supporting his decision but that's it. They didn't even post it on twitter which is where bt posted it.
I know a lot of fans who are not but jobs like us. I.e. On boards and everything else, and almost all didn't even know until I Told them.

So anyway since they didn't bother to send and email or post across platforms, maybe even post a news story saying they support him - I don't see them going out of their way to share news about a replacement.
That said, I think any news will happen a few weeks before the tour but not a few months like now

[Cptn. Monkeyman]

Originally Posted by willndmb

I think it's kinda funny to see people asking all the time about a replacement when the band hasn't even really acknowledged him not being there to begin with.
Sure they made one half as post on Facebook about supporting his decision but that's it. They didn't even post it on twitter which is where bt posted it.
I know a lot of fans who are not but jobs like us. I.e. On boards and everything else, and almost all didn't even know until I Told them.

So anyway since they didn't bother to send and email or post across platforms, maybe even post a news story saying they support him - I don't see them going out of their way to share news about a replacement.
That said, I think any news will happen a few weeks before the tour but not a few months like now

Yeah, we've only got about 7 weeks till tour starts, so they've only got about 6 weeks to announce anything regarding the tour. Patience is virtue, we'll all know who's on stage this summer soon enough.

[YouNeverKnow25]

hard to believe we are 5 days away from being able to say the tour starts next month. time flies when you are old.

[Cptn. Monkeyman]

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25

hard to believe we are 5 days away from being able to say the tour starts next month. time flies when you are old.

It's coming fast!

[rhizingbines]

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25

hard to believe we are 5 days away from being able to say the tour starts next month. time flies when you are old.

Originally Posted by Cptn. Monkeyman

It's coming fast!

Feels like yesterday that I was submitting requests for tickets!

[rhizingbines]

Originally Posted by willndmb

I think it's kinda funny to see people asking all the time about a replacement when the band hasn't even really acknowledged him not being there to begin with.
Sure they made one half as post on Facebook about supporting his decision but that's it. They didn't even post it on twitter which is where bt posted it.
I know a lot of fans who are not but jobs like us. I.e. On boards and everything else, and almost all didn't even know until I Told them.

So anyway since they didn't bother to send and email or post across platforms, maybe even post a news story saying they support him - I don't see them going out of their way to share news about a replacement.
That said, I think any news will happen a few weeks before the tour but not a few months like now

Yeah that part is weird. If you’re not on a DMB message board or FB group and missed that one FB post, you probably have no idea that Boyd isn’t going to be there. My friends going with me to the shows have no idea.

[TheLastPig]

Originally Posted by rhizingbines

Yeah that part is weird. If you’re not on a DMB message board or FB group and missed that one FB post, you probably have no idea that Boyd isn’t going to be there. My friends going with me to the shows have no idea.

Which is exactly why its fucked up the way management has handled this.

[Dannyyankou]

I think if you’re a DMB fan on twitter there’s a decent chance you found out. 6k DMB fans retweeted his announcement.

[Heyberto]

Originally Posted by Dannyyankou

I think if you’re a DMB fan on twitter there’s a decent chance you found out. 6k DMB fans retweeted his announcement.

And if you're not aware, chances are you're in the camp that just doesn't care and won't even if you find out after the fact.

[Cptn. Monkeyman]

Contrary to what most people believe, there's still a lot of people who don't have or follow or care about social media. Ants marching is the only form of "social media" that I follow, and that is recent. My brother is a die hard DMB fan (even more so than me) but he doesn't follow ants. The only way he found out was because he was browsing around on the dmbalmanac and saw something about it on there. This was like a week after the the tweet was made.

[TheLastPig]

Originally Posted by Heyberto

And if you're not aware, chances are you're in the camp that just doesn't care and won't even if you find out after the fact.

Boyd is one of, if not the most recognizable member outside of Dave, if there was just no violin on stage this summer I would bet there would be a lot of casual fans unhappy that see them locally every year. If hes replaced obviously that minimizes that but I expect to hear a lot of "wheres the dude with the dreads?" type comments this summer.

[grilldanmo]

Still quite interested in this, but we got nothing.

Oddly, the same can be said for the new album thread and the "decision" thread, but those things just won't die.

[illinifan]

Originally Posted by TheLastPig

Boyd is one of, if not the most recognizable member outside of Dave, if there was just no violin on stage this summer I would bet there would be a lot of casual fans unhappy that see them locally every year. If hes replaced obviously that minimizes that but I expect to hear a lot of "wheres the dude with the dreads?" type comments this summer.

If anyone can fuck up a tour, DMB can. I have total faith in that.

[dmbdrew41]

Yea...hopefully we'll get some news on this situation in the next month. Any news on any more auditions or if any took place at all in the past recent months?

[grilldanmo]

While under no delusions, I still want this guy...his solo at the end of Are You Serious is just killer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGAzPtwUJJU

Gotta catch him next time he comes through town...

[Heyberto]

Originally Posted by TheLastPig

Boyd is one of, if not the most recognizable member outside of Dave, if there was just no violin on stage this summer I would bet there would be a lot of casual fans unhappy that see them locally every year. If hes replaced obviously that minimizes that but I expect to hear a lot of "wheres the dude with the dreads?" type comments this summer.

Being aware isn't the same thing as caring if he's there... they'll probably notice if there's no violin, but not necessarily who is playing it.

[jmc419]

Paul Dateh has some cool shit out there.

[grilldanmo]

I'm almost at the point where I don't want a violin player on stage. I want them to sound amazing playing great sets with stellar versions of songs so people stop acting like they either do or will sound like shit without one specific instrument or that it can't be reasonably replicated by other instruments.

Music is about harmonic development/movement. Melodies, rhythms, riffs, chords (and their voicings), arrangement, etc. are the foundations of music, and it's Dave's creation thereof that is the foundation of what makes the band sound like they do...as unique as they do. While instrumentation can make a massive difference, DMB won't instantly sound generic without the violin. Dave's harmonic sensibilities, Fonz's lines, Carter's rhythms, Roi's (still the basis of so much of what Rashawn and Jeff play) and Boyd's melodic ideas, and Tim's embellishments don't have to be instrument specific. We've heard versions of songs that have featured a horn solo with Boyd taking a violin solo, Boyd solos replaced by horn solos or guitar, and we've heard rearrangements where the horn, violin, and guitar harmonies have been redistributed on some level or another. Parts have dropped in and out on certain tours or shows without ruffling feathers or they have made a HUGE difference, but the quality of difference is nothing but subjective.

Remember when the band didn't feature piano for the better part of it's first decade and then it was there for about seven years and has been gone for another decade? How about when they added trumpet? And then (OMG it was and is the worst thing EVER!!!) electric guitar? And can you believe that man in his early fifties no longer sounds exactly like he did in early twenties?!?!? The audacity!

I get the concerns and complaints...I've been there. I wasn't a fan of them adding keys, thought it generally filled too much of the space that helped/allowed Dave's guitar, Roi's horns, and Boyd's violin stand out. Dave played in a less chordal manner and left space for the unique instrumentation of the band to be heard. Listening back, however, there are quite a few performances (more song specific than full shows or tours) where Butch's presence elevated the song or added layers/textures that brought the song to another place. That may have meant less Boyd or Roi, but it didn't diminish the music. Overall, I can acknowledge that Butch wasn't a disaster, just not to my liking in most situations. Great musician that added some great interplay.

Great music is guaranteed if you like the DMB catalog, Dave's solo tunes, and the covers they've done. Great interplay has always been on display with this band. I'd love for them to add another regular touring musician to this tour regardless of instrument (ideally not keyboard-based however ). Or they can just go with the folks that they have and remind everyone how good they are (not can be or were).

Regardless, I'll be there ready to ingest and enjoy their offerings.

[Cptn. Monkeyman]

^

[ForkInFork]

I see what you're getting at, but if I could control the decisions there would 100% be a violin player on stage at every show this summer, and I think the band and the music would be better for it

[ExistenceNow]

Yea... I'm still gonna go with not having a violin on stage would be really, really dumb.

[grilldanmo]

Originally Posted by ForkInFork

I see what you're getting at, but if I could control the decisions there would 100% be a violin player on stage at every show this summer, and I think the band and the music would be better for it

Inspiration comes in many forms...new blood on a new instrument might serve the band and the fans far better than merely treading familiar terrain.

We'll see how they decided to play it soon...but not soon enough, I have a month and a half before I see my first 2018 DMB show. We're getting antsy...

[Heyberto]

Originally Posted by grilldanmo

I'm almost at the point where I don't want a violin player on stage. I want them to sound amazing playing great sets with stellar versions of songs so people stop acting like they either do or will sound like shit without one specific instrument or that it can't be reasonably replicated by other instruments.

Music is about harmonic development/movement. Melodies, rhythms, riffs, chords (and their voicings), arrangement, etc. are the foundations of music, and it's Dave's creation thereof that is the foundation of what makes the band sound like they do...as unique as they do. While instrumentation can make a massive difference, DMB won't instantly sound generic without the violin. Dave's harmonic sensibilities, Fonz's lines, Carter's rhythms, Roi's (still the basis of so much of what Rashawn and Jeff play) and Boyd's melodic ideas, and Tim's embellishments don't have to be instrument specific. We've heard versions of songs that have featured a horn solo with Boyd taking a violin solo, Boyd solos replaced by horn solos or guitar, and we've heard rearrangements where the horn, violin, and guitar harmonies have been redistributed on some level or another. Parts have dropped in and out on certain tours or shows without ruffling feathers or they have made a HUGE difference, but the quality of difference is nothing but subjective.

Remember when the band didn't feature piano for the better part of it's first decade and then it was there for about seven years and has been gone for another decade? How about when they added trumpet? And then (OMG it was and is the worst thing EVER!!!) electric guitar? And can you believe that man in his early fifties no longer sounds exactly like he did in early twenties?!?!? The audacity!

I get the concerns and complaints...I've been there. I wasn't a fan of them adding keys, thought it generally filled too much of the space that helped/allowed Dave's guitar, Roi's horns, and Boyd's violin stand out. Dave played in a less chordal manner and left space for the unique instrumentation of the band to be heard. Listening back, however, there are quite a few performances (more song specific than full shows or tours) where Butch's presence elevated the song or added layers/textures that brought the song to another place. That may have meant less Boyd or Roi, but it didn't diminish the music. Overall, I can acknowledge that Butch wasn't a disaster, just not to my liking in most situations. Great musician that added some great interplay.

Great music is guaranteed if you like the DMB catalog, Dave's solo tunes, and the covers they've done. Great interplay has always been on display with this band. I'd love for them to add another regular touring musician to this tour regardless of instrument (ideally not keyboard-based however ). Or they can just go with the folks that they have and remind everyone how good they are (not can be or were).

Regardless, I'll be there ready to ingest and enjoy their offerings.

You're not wrong, but if I want to hear this same band start venturing off into harmonic musical experimentation, then I just want them to present it as such. We go to see DMB because it sounds like DMB. None of this is an absolute of course.. we like for them to improv (but they really don't much anymore) and play around with the songs, but at it's core we want it to sound like DMB.

So, removing an instrument like the violin fundamentally changes that. The keyboards or more guitars don't really change that. They got that when Roi was injured and moved to keep that intact when they had a somewhat comparable, but different sounding option in Rashawn.

The rationale to not have a violin or a saxophone (and to some degree now, the Trumpet) messes with the established harmonics of this band and, more importantly, it's song catalog. So while I hear what you're saying, removing such a melodic element of the live show removes what makes the very harmonics you speak of. Some of that is stuck in the heads of the listener, because it's always been there. Having Tim mimic the violin isn't really about finding harmony in music.. it's disrupting the very foundation you speak of, relative to who this band has been on stage.

So removing the violin...Can it be done? Of course. The big question is why would you even try when you've got time to get it ready? Because it's not simple addition and subtraction when you talk about a significant portion of the musical catalog has been arranged with the violin as an integral part. I don't think many of us feel like we've spent money on tickets to watch them figure that out on the tour in front of us.

[Heyberto]

Originally Posted by ForkInFork

I see what you're getting at, but if I could control the decisions there would 100% be a violin player on stage at every show this summer, and I think the band and the music would be better for it

Originally Posted by ExistenceNow

Yea... I'm still gonna go with not having a violin on stage would be really, really dumb.

Oh yes. Exactly.

What's really staggering? Is that it should be a no brainer, but we all still believe there is a chance this band could make the decision to not have one. I think that chance is slim, but we've seen head scratching decisions before.

[TheLastPig]

Acting like adding/taking away keys or adding trumpet is the same thing as not having violin is laughable.

You can have harmonic development with the violin, its a key instrument to the structure of this band's sound. One that stands out and makes the band unique. The songs can be rearranged with it. The songs need new arrangements too yes, but I cant for the life of me understand anyone thinking they wouldnt be able to do it if they add a violin fill in.

When there are tons of songs, and staples I might add, that have the backbone of their structure supported by violin, that is the expectation for the way the song should be built and performed. Then they use that for a launching point to re-arrange.

Would you feel the same way if they just took horns out of the music? Because this is the exact equivalent of that.

[laststopdmb]

Lots of good points here. I’m still going as well and hopeful there is a violinist on stage at every show too. I am more upset at how in the dark we are. The band and management clearly waited until after tickets went on sale publicly before announcing that boyd wasn’t going to tour. That is a huge slap in the face to all of us. Adding no information to that before the tour is another insult to us all. I am to the point where I don’t want to spend my hard earned money on a band that treats us like this. For what reason? How and why is it so important to keep from us if there will be a violinist on tour? Just say yes or no. It’s bullshit. I’m nervous the sets this summer will be very similar each night if no violinist tours. Even worse than 2016.

[grilldanmo]

Originally Posted by TheLastPig

Acting like adding/taking away keys or adding trumpet is the same thing as not having violin is laughable.

You can have harmonic development with the violin, its a key instrument to the structure of this band's sound. One that stands out and makes the band unique. The songs can be rearranged with it. The songs need new arrangements too yes, but I cant for the life of me understand anyone thinking they cant or wouldnt do it if they add a violin fill in.

When there are tons of songs, and staples I might add, that have the backbone of their structure supported by violin, that is the expectation for the way the song should be built and performed. Then they use that for a launching point to re-arrange.

Would you feel the same way if they just took horns out of the music? Because this is the exact equivalent of that.

Yes. The key ingredient is Dave and his songs.

I prefer the "original" five piece version, but the future of that ended with LeRoi dying. He was my favorite musician in the band. It would have been sad, but I would have understood if the band ended after he passed. Had it happened when they weren't touring, I wonder if they would have ever regularly played together again.

I completely understand your perspective, I just don't agree with it. We've got a classic agree to disagree thing here. I'm well versed in music and instrumentation within many genres, countless bands, etc. I can hear the possibilities with many other instruments filling in the hole left by Boyd and I know I can live with it. I'm also sure that if most fans just listened, they would be happy with whatever version of the band is on stage.

My presence in the audience is based on wanting to hear the music...the songs. Unless they did Everyday and Stand Up back to back as the entire show, there's a 0% chance I will walk away disappointed. The music is bigger than the instrumentation. As long as Dave's there singing, it would take a lot more than Boyd/violin and horn absence to "ruin" the show.

[garagebrothers]

Originally Posted by ExistenceNow

Yea... I'm still gonna go with not having a violin on stage would be really, really dumb.

The perfect short answer to all of this.

[TheLastPig]

Originally Posted by grilldanmo

Yes. The key ingredient is Dave and his songs.

I prefer the "original" five piece version, but the future of that ended with LeRoi dying. He was my favorite musician in the band. It would have been sad, but I would have understood if the band ended after he passed. Had it happened when they weren't touring, I wonder if they would have ever regularly played together again.

I completely understand your perspective, I just don't agree with it. We've got a classic agree to disagree thing here. I'm well versed in music and instrumentation within many genres, countless bands, etc. I can hear the possibilities with many other instruments filling in the hole left by Boyd and I know I can live with it. I'm also sure that if most fans just listened, they would be happy with whatever version of the band is on stage.

My presence in the audience is based on wanting to hear the music...the songs. Unless they did Everyday and Stand Up back to back as the entire show, there's a 0% chance I will walk away disappointed. The music is bigger than the instrumentation. As long as Dave's there singing, it would take a lot more than Boyd/violin and horn absence to "ruin" the show.

The songs are not the songs they were made to be without the violin or sax. Thats the entire point though.

Were not going to see Dave & Tim where it is understood the music is only played with two acoustic guitars. No violin means even LESS dynamics than what have already been drowned out by playing too fast, too loud and too much Tim. Why would you want the music that used to have so much depth become much more vapid and rock heavy?

As said above, it doesnt mean that it isnt possible, it means its a giant departure from the music this band wrote and how it was meant to be played.

If I were going to a Dave & friends show, okay, I can change my expectation. When im going to see Dave Matthews Band, there is an expectation to see Guitar, Drums, Violin, Bass & Sax. You seem to be making an argument about the music itself, we are making an argument about the band being represented as what they are and always have been.

Ive used the comparison before.. but its like going to see Phish and there being no keys. Thats not Phish then.

Especially when the announcement of Boyd not being there was made AFTER tickets were sold. Thats a huge point about this as well.